Need Some Input

[hattrick]

I recently had to rebuild the engine in my 95 351. It is now a 408 with Scat forged internals and many other upgrades. I also installed a 10 lb pulley on the Vortech. The bypass valve is opening at 7 lbs and has to be replaced. To get the most perfromance out of the set up, Quantum Performance is recommending the Anderson power pipe with a mini race bypass valve. To install the Anderson power pipe it is necessary to cut a 4" + hole in the inner fender.

The car is 1 of 11 or 12 R-Code speedsters produced in 1995 and has 11,000 miles on the clock.

I have never made any modifications to my Saleens that are not "bolt on" and couldn't be easily reversed.

What are the thoughts about cutting the sheet metal on a car like this?

[Dave]

That's a pretty car. :biggrin:

I think some of this depends on, will the S351/ S351 R-Codes be viewed like a Shelby creation in the future or will it be more like a DeTomaso Pantera?

Doing hidden updates (and given the sketchy production nature of the cars) could maybe skate by the MCA judging at present. Also, what will the Saleen Clubs value? What will be approved? As the cars move forward.

The Pantera comes to mind since their following allows for updates and changes to fix the production glitches they exhibited. Updates and even all-out custom numbers.

I'm pretty sure, the Shelby's are at a point where only equipment that can be documented from period Speed Catalogs or documented with a paper trail for a particular vehicle, will go by without hisses and boos.

If you have self-doubt about cutting, that could be your answer.

Also, we live once... have fun! :smile:

P.S. That's a pretty car. :biggrin:

[fud]

So it's 1 of 11 (or 12) with a rebuilt motor? How does rebuilding fit into the value equation? Is it defined as "not original"?

Not trying to stoke fires, I'm just generally curious if a rebuilt motor in a car is in any way a detrement to it's value, given it's rarity.

[hattrick]

I'm not sure how a rebuilt motor effects the value in this case either. IMO, it shouldn't devalue the car because the build was necessitated by a broken piston due to the stock Ford internals and very lean condition they came from Saleen. I did use the same block and at this point only the internals have changed. (With the exception of the intakes, valve covers, discharge tube, and all brackets being poweder coated) I personally view it as fixing a problem or design flaw with the original Saleen set up. Basically the engine was brought up to 97 specs, with the exception of the additional 57 C.I.:biggrin:

[S351r]

It would help but, here are some pros and cons. I have had this same issue. If you cut that area it is difficult to repair down the road. The parts aren't offered by Ford anymore. The motor in my 96 is a stock bore and stroker 351 that has been rebuilt and alot of upgrades added. 640 RWHP at 8lbs of boost. My stock 99 makes 540 rwhp. Both cars have stock inlet and discharge tubes. Not knowing what other supporting mods you have I can't tell you what would be best but, with the 408 (I had a few in the 96) if it is healthy it will **** near max out your fuel system even with the upgraded pumps. Personally I would leave it alone and improve on what is there. If you want some first hand knowledge from the route your taking your car let me know. I'll send you my contact info. I'm also just north of you in Kansas.

[Red_Devil]

I don't think adding more power to a Saleen ever lowered its value. The types of people that buy Saleen cars don't generally look for something 100% stock to keep value.

[S351r]

Cutting factory sheetmetal is one issue. Some people frown on it because of the expense if replacing it. With the 351 cars the other issue is that most of the factory electronics, fuel systems, and drivetrain was only built to support so much power. Once you go past say 600 rwhp the upgrades start getting very expensive and very non-stock appearing. When my 96 made just shy of 900 rwhp I have $4500 in electronics upgrades (laptop included), $550 fuel injectors, $1200 fuel system, $1250 exhaust system, etc.. and that was not counting the small parts. Prior to that I don't even want to talk about cost (408, XX trim, 1200+ RWHP). Having a 550-600 RWHP street car is hard enough to get it to plant it to the ground. ($550 struts and coli overs, $350 rear shocks, $340 rear control arms, $150 rear springs, and possibly a anti roll bar. Depends on how the car hooks.

[Dave]

Scott's the publicly assessable knowledge brass for these, and brings up a great point. If you push an upgrade in one area, you can be forced to upgrade another, and then the snowball begins. :wink:

I think the best thing, when someone is approaching these questions or buying into a hobby such as this, is to decide what the expectations are for the vehicle.

If someone came up and said, "I want a car for National MCA shows, something to compete in Unrestored, Concourse, or Thorobred classes." Then a stock, or stock appearing vehicle with correct equipment and production finishes would be where they need to go. Same goes for the newcomer if they proclaim, "I want to get my feet wet, what would be the safest investment?" It would be a stock or stock appearing car with a paper trail to document where it came from, where its been, and wants been done. Cars that don't produce question marks or have time gaps are great!

The weekend toy with an eye toward future value can deviate on correctness. I was a fan of Greg's previous ’93 S/C Spyder and it fits as a tinkertoy car. With the alleged built shortblock, Saleen intake, 3-piece Sterns, exhaust, and various maintenance items replaced… it made for a great "no worries" car that deviated from "as delivered," but could easily be returned to OE if need be. On the MCA level, a great, clean car for a Street Driven class, since a blind eye will cast upon the deviations.

Personally, I think I can run the gamut. Some things connect with an emotional response. For me, a 100% stock and fresh SSC can tug. Most folks have "a thing" they've always wanted and if it's been a dream, then it's imagined a specified way.

I'm not a purist, but I have to say the OE cars have a way of calling out a memory or visual reaction, whether positive or negative.

Value wise, as a personal feeling, I'd rather have a vehicle without a mysterious past over something stock and unsubstantiated. Not sure if I'm typing correctly. You figure each vehicle is history with a personal narrative. They have a visible production number. Short of naming the cars "Jennifer," or "Ted" each one is unique.

As for production, the neat thing about Saleen vehicles, the numbers crunch well for a variety of models. For a collector, we would imagine a factory Speedster would hold importance. We know convertibles and Spyders over the years have since been converted into Speedsters, but will the collector pay more or have they paid more for a factory car? If given a choice, we would expect the cars featuring factory and/or a high content of Saleen options would be a/the collectors choice.

Saleen owners do tend to modify and enjoy their cars. I think the 351 cars show this. If nothing else, we could go by the engine detailing that follows these rebuilds. :cool:

[S351r]

Looking at the photo one tip I would give is to do away with the FMU.