Electric Fans info

[Light02atl]

If you have had a failure of your electric fans, please post in here. Please provide your model year.

I emailed and called Spal-USA today. Both their engineering and tech department. I am trying to see if they will work with us to determine a root cause for all of these fans issues, including them burning out, constant cycling, and general malfunctions. As we know, Saleen will not take responsibility for this or do any kind of investigate. They just slap a mechanical fan bandaid on the problem.

Hopefully there is a simple solution and a simple diagnosis.

-Shane

[Light02atl]

I Just got off the phone with SPAL. I had them send me an email so I could provide everyone with accurate information. Time for some more investigating...


Actually the Saleen trucks do NOT use our fans, they have a dual TriPac fan (http://www.tripacintl.com/idxfan.html (http://www.tripacintl.com/idxfan.html)) I'm am not certain if it was sold direct to them or through Derale.

The problems stem from the fan and what Saleen told us originally about its specifications. Unfortunately once they have some operating hours on them and everything is up to temp the fans tend to draw more than 30A each which was causing failures of the PWM drive as the circuit was only rated to 25A. This is why they retrofitted everything with a second relay kit so that both fans would be driven from relays.

The reason your fans cycle is that the defrost system on the trucks cycles the AC compressor which is where the fan module is getting the signal to activate the fans to give airflow across the condenser. As an easy solution I would maybe suggest putting a toggle or connector inline on the blue wire going to the fan module that you switch off/disconnect during the cold winter months when you will be using the defrost and reconnect come summer when the ambient temperature increases.

A more involved option would be to install a pressure switch into the ac lines to trigger the fans, then it would always be automatic, but of course this would be much more difficult.

We would recommend using our fans vs the TriPac and version 3 PWM module but we do not offer a "direct fit" for vehicle. I can check with some of the manufactures we sell to, maybe some of them have built shrouds to fit the F150's.

[hennie]

I discussed this matter with Jim from JDM as well regarding the ON & OFF cycling, but incase you want to have this done with a manual toggle switch you have to be carefull not to have your AC system overheating :eek:because the radiator will lack cooling as the fans are not spinning.
So i decided to keep it as it is now with the JDM kit( same ON&OFF cycle as the saleen electric fans but better quality:biggrin:)

Hennie

[Light02atl]

I discussed this matter with Jim from JDM as well regarding the ON & OFF cycling, but incase you want to have this done with a manual toggle switch you have to be carefull not to have your AC system overheating :eek:because the radiator will lack cooling as the fans are not spinning.
So i decided to keep it as it is now with the JDM kit( same ON&OFF cycle as the saleen electric fans but better quality:biggrin:)

Hennie

Did you pay $700 for the fan kit from Jim?

[hennie]

don't know what I paid exactly as i bought a few more things, but yes I did buy their kit, it has one large fan instead of two.
Since mine is a NA truck it had the normal belt driven fan with a clutch.
having this fan and clutch in your hand you can surely imagine this creates quite a bit of drag.

Hennie

[Saleen190]

shane, sorry it took me awhile. My 07 does have the spal relays with bosch fans.

[hattrick]

I have 07-246 (SC) which has the SPAL relays and PWM. Hvae replaced the PWM controller once, fuse holder once, mulitple relays and last fall the relay base behind the front bumper completely melted.

[burnouts331]

I have 07-246 (SC) which has the SPAL relays and PWM. Hvae replaced the PWM controller once, fuse holder once, mulitple relays and last fall the relay base behind the front bumper completely melted.

hattrick. What happened and how did you diagnose what had happened when you replaced all of these things. My fans, blinkers, and I guess IC pump went out all at once in my truck and it is still at the shop. Just wanted to know how big a problem this is and about how long it takes to fix because I am still without a truck as of last friday.

[hattrick]

I spoke with an engineer at SPAL and they told me which wires I could jumper to test the controller. Sorry, I don't remember the procedure. When a relay fails you will only have 1 fun running. The relay behind the battery controls the drivers side fan and the relay behind the front bumper controls the passenger side fan. I was just keeping an extra relay in the truck. When the fuse holder by the battery failed, the smoke coming from under the hood "clued me in". The last failure was the relay behind the front bumper melting. While in the garage I kept smelling that horrible electrical smell. Turns out the relay behind the bumper continued to "cook" with the truck off. Who knows what would have happened if I wasn't working in the garage! This happened in the fall and I have not addressed it yet as one fan is doing the job with the cooler temps. I didn't have the issues with the turn signals and IC pump. I do have to add IC coolant on a regualr basis. No coolant on the garage floor. Hope it's not going through a head gasket and out the exhaust!

[Light02atl]

I spoke with an engineer at SPAL and they told me which wires I could jumper to test the controller. Sorry, I don't remember the procedure. When a relay fails you will only have 1 fun running. The relay behind the battery controls the drivers side fan and the relay behind the front bumper controls the passenger side fan. I was just keeping an extra relay in the truck. When the fuse holder by the battery failed, the smoke coming from under the hood "clued me in". The last failure was the relay behind the front bumper melting. While in the garage I kept smelling that horrible electrical smell. Turns out the relay behind the bumper continued to "cook" with the truck off. Who knows what would have happened if I wasn't working in the garage! This happened in the fall and I have not addressed it yet as one fan is doing the job with the cooler temps. I didn't have the issues with the turn signals and IC pump. I do have to add IC coolant on a regualr basis. No coolant on the garage floor. Hope it's not going through a head gasket and out the exhaust!


Good info. I wonder if we can just replace the relay behind the front bumper and behind the battery with 30A (or maybe 35A) relays and be good to go. Can you describe where the relay is behind the bumper? I have not looked for mine yet.

As for the Intercooler coolant...there are not many places for it to go...fortunately. The coolant is seperate from the engine coolant....two different systems....at least, thats how it has been in the past. You should be able to drain your radiator and not have to touch your IC coolant. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

How often are you having to fill coolant? Is your resevoir completely empty?

[hattrick]

It is on the passenger side of the truck. If you lay just behind the front bumper you will see it secured with a single screw to the truck. It looks just like the one behind the battery.

[Light02atl]

Can someone take a picture of their fans, the relay(s), the fuses, and wiring harness?

Also, can someone try and find a part number on their stock electric fan setup?

I have been talking with tripac today and they are unaware that Saleen was using their fans. They want some pics of the setup and said they may be able to help us out with relays....but need some pics of how everything is installed.

I would do this myself, but my truck has been at the dealer and I have no idea when I will be getting it back.

-Shane
light02atl@yahoo.com

[Light02atl]

It is on the passenger side of the truck. If you lay just behind the front bumper you will see it secured with a single screw to the truck. It looks just like the one behind the battery.


It is also a SPAL relay??

[Saleen190]

Can someone take a picture of their fans, the relay(s), the fuses, and wiring harness?

Also, can someone try and find a part number on their stock electric fan setup?

I have been talking with tripac today and they are unaware that Saleen was using their fans. They want some pics of the setup and said they may be able to help us out with relays....but need some pics of how everything is installed.

I would do this myself, but my truck has been at the dealer and I have no idea when I will be getting it back.

-Shane

light02atl@yahoo.com (light02atl@yahoo.com)

Ill be more than happy to take the pics and email em to you if you'll post em up. I still havent ever figured out how to post pics on forum threads. Give me till monday to get them to you...gotta take the GF outta town for V-day weekend.

[Light02atl]

Good News everyone. I spoke with the owner of Tripac fans at their International headquarters...Scott O'Brien. He was unaware that Saleen was using tripac fans in the S331s. So, I am assuming that Ford/Saleen got the fans from Derale. He offered to look at our setup, the relays, wiring harnesses, etc and give us a possible solution to solve our problem.

Hattrick has volunteered to take his truck to Tripac HQ so they can get a good look at it and tell us "whats up." Hopefully we will just be able to swap out some wires and the relays. Maybe we could even get a group buy on everything. I am anxious to see what Scott has to say when he meets Hattrick.

Scott seemed like a really nice guy. He called me on my cell and we talked about the situation...then we talked cars. He was very down to earth and took pride in his fans.

Lets hope this all works out everyone!

[haulin S331]

Sounds like he will get us on the right track, keep us all updated on the info. thanks Haulin S331

[hattrick]

Just to let everyone know,I wasn't able to make it to Tripac today but I will on Monday.

[haulin S331]

Hattrick, thanks for letting us know what going on,Sure going to be helpful to ALL of us. THANKS AGAIN. Haulin S331.

[gomez331sc]

same here! Thanks

[burnouts331]

If we could get a fix for this and a group it would be awesome.

[Saleen190]

you guys are great for doing the leg work to help out the rest of us. Thanks a ton

[hattrick]

Today I spent about 2 1/2 hours at Tripac with my truck. Tripac looked at the lay out and took several readings with a volt meter and osciliscope. The fans are only pulling about 22-25 amps each which is within the rating of the fuses, fuse holders and relays. We have tentatively planned to bring my truck back to Tripac this Friday so they can draw up a complete schematic of the fan system. They believe they may have identified part of problem but further review is still need. Tripac was confident they could develop a kit for us and were great to work with today. I will post more once I return to Tripac.

[Light02atl]

awesome awesome awesome....THATS what I am talkin about. Thanks for doing this Hattrick.

Be sure to ask what the cost of the "change" will be and ask if we can get a "group buy" of 5 or more.

Shane

[hattrick]

Obviously there is more work to be done but at this point I think the kit will be very affordable. There was talk of maybe making 50-100 kits so that should help keep the cost down as much as possible. Of course there will be my 100% development and commission fee! :wink:

[Saleen190]

if you dont mind me asking, and I know its early in the testing but what did they find that they thought was the problem?

[hattrick]

After checking several things, Tripac suspects the fuse holders and relays may not be of sufficient quality to handle the load. They felct the layout of the wiring was done correctly. Based on what they found today, the "kit" would replace most of the wiring, both fuses and relays. The relays would probably aslo be relocated to make them more accessible. If Tripac feels they are still on the right track after Friday they would probably make two prototypes. One would be installed on my truck for testing and the second would serve as model. Nothing like being a guinea pig!

[Light02atl]

After checking several things, Tripac suspects the fuse holders and relays may not be of sufficient quality to handle the load. They felct the layout of the wiring was done correctly. Based on what they found today, the "kit" would replace most of the wiring, both fuses and relays. The relays would probably aslo be relocated to make them more accessible. If Tripac feels they are still on the right track after Friday they would probably make two prototypes. One would be installed on my truck for testing and the second would serve as model. Nothing like being a guinea pig!

Sounds good. Lets hope everything is affordable...as in...less than $400 or so. At least we will be able to sell our SPAL relays.....if you still have ones that work properly.

[Light02atl]

I spoke with Mike Troyer today. He said he had fan controllers to replace ours that should fix the problem....$50 each.

I am measuring my radiator for him and see if we can get a custom fan kit since the regular F150 one may not fit our dual core radiator.

[hattrick]

Is that for the actual PWM controller or the relays?

[Light02atl]

Is that for the actual PWM controller or the relays?


I want to say its the controllers, not just relays. I can double check though. I honestly cannot remember, while we were talking about it, I was outside and had to run for cover because of some nasty hail and a tornado siren went off!

[hattrick]

Just wanted to let everybody know I am still working to get my truck back over to TriPac. I left a message for our contact on Friday and will try to call again tomorrow.

[Saleen190]

THANKS for the update hattrick

[haulin S331]

Thanks for the update, Keep us all informed. Haulin S331

[hattrick]

Some good news! I received a call fromTriPac yesterday. Tripac believes they have identified the problems with our fan system and they are already in the process of developing a prototype kit. The parts for the prototype have been ordered and will be installed on my truck in the next few weeks. The kit will replace both fuse holders as well as both relays with better quality components. I will continue to update as we move forward.

[Light02atl]

Some good news! I received a call fromTriPac yesterday. Tripac believes they have identified the problems with our fan system and they are already in the process of developing a prototype kit. The parts for the prototype have been ordered and will be installed on my truck in the next few weeks. The kit will replace both fuse holders as well as both relays with better quality components. I will continue to update as we move forward.


Dang, a few more weeks?

Im keeping my fingers crossed. I hope that they will warranty the setup.....just in case.

[hattrick]

It will probably only be a couple of weeks but I am traveling this week and four days next week. I am anxious to get this going as well as I am only running on 1 fun and it will be warming up in TX soon!

[haulin S331]

I myself, just can't thank you for helping all of us with this problem I'm glad that Tripac is near to you, so they can see what we are all dealing with. And they have a FIX for us.:smile: Haulin S331.

[Saleen190]

Hey Hattrick....any more updates on the fan issue? I appreciate everything you have done and dont wanna sound pushy but.........C'MON MAN WHATS THE WORD??? :biggrin: I'm anxious to see what we need to to do. LOL

[Light02atl]

same here....I had one kick out on me the other day. Probably only a matter of time before the other one goes!

[hattrick]

I'm get worried too as my wife said it was 90 degrees in DFW today and I am only running on one fan. Sorry but nothing new to report. I have not heard anything new from TriPac since my last post. Just as well as I have been traveling 7 of the last 10 business days. I will not be traveling next week and plan to follow up with TriPac. I willlet you guys know what I learn.

[haulin S331]

THANKS BUDDY :smile:

[hattrick]

I spoke with TriPac earlier today and they have received the parts for the prototype(s). The tentative plan is to intall the kit on my truck some time next week. Once that is done I will update everyone again.

[Light02atl]

Great!

make sure you ask about a warranty on whatever kit they design!

[Saleen190]

warranty?hahahahah,,,,,,like we have one now? thanks for the heads up hattrick

[gomez331sc]

im in on finding out about this kit myself.

[Saleen190]

any new updates on this?

[hattrick]

Some good news! The TriPac kit is being installed on my truck today. I will update with more information after I meet with TriPac.

[Saleen190]

Sweeeet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[haulin S331]

I sure hope it's good news. Haulin S331

[Light02atl]

I hope it$ good new$ too...$$$$

[hattrick]

TriPac finished installing the new components on my truck last night. It was great to hear both fans working again!:biggrin:
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Just some quick background about the problems I have experienced with my fan system. I have replaced multiple fuses and relays. I had to replace the controller because it completely died leaving me without any cooling. While driving under normal conditions I had smoke coming from underneath the hood, which turned out to be one of the fuse holders melting and on the verge of going into flames. I had the same experience with the relay behind the front bumper. Apparently the contacts had become “welded” together and it was pulling substantially more current and caused one fan to stay on after the key was removed from the ignition. I disconnected that fan but thank God I stayed in the garage working for a few minutes and smelled the melting relay before it went up into flames!
<o:p></o:p>
The fix is pretty simple. The fuses/holders were replaced with maxi style holders and 30 amp fuses. The maxi style fuses are slower acting and are rated to handle the amperage at much higher temperatures. The relays were replaced with a dual post relay, which feature post style connections and can handle higher amperage. These components are just substantially better quality and more expensive than what used.
<o:p></o:p>
I am not an EE but I will do my best to explain the problem/fix.
<o:p></o:p>
Some had said the problems were caused by an increase in amperage from the fans as they heated up. Based on the oscilloscope data obtained from my truck, this is not the case at all. The fans are operating within the 30-amp rating. What was not taken into consideration is the de-rating curve of the fuses due to heat. As the under hood temps climb the rating of the fuses could be reduced by as much as 60-70%. When TriPac plotted the inrush data of the fans against the temperature de-rating curve of the fuses the problem was apparent. This would explain why all of my problems happened during the warmer months and others had issues when towing.
<o:p></o:p>
Unfortunately TriPac has decided providing a kit or new harness would not be a good fit for their business. They are not currently tooled up to handle the connectors used in our harnesses and understandably do not want to provide a kit of components when they do not have any quality control of their installation.
<o:p></o:p>
TriPac is going to send me some information about the problem and fix as well as the list of components used which I will share. If there is interest I could look at buying a quantity of the components and providing a kit. Maybe we would see some cost savings by ordering in some quantity? The fix should be under $100 and can be installed without removing the harness. It is just very important to make sure all of the connections are done correctly.
<o:p></o:p>
I also wanted to thank TriPac for taking the time to address a problem that did not stem from their product. They have been very good to work with. Even after TriPac had decided not to market a kit or harness they still pulled the harness from my truck and rebuilt it with the new components and soldered each connection. This gives us a very good “test mule” for validate their findings. If any of you have other car projects and need electric fans/controllers I would strongly recommend looking at TriPac’s product offering. You rarely find this type of service from domestic manufactures and will certainly never see it with overseas manufacture.

[Light02atl]

Great news.

If you do not feel comfortable putting a kit together yourself, please send me a list of the parts, and part numbers, and the "fix" data from tripac and I will put it together for everyone.

If our fan(s) do go out, will tripac sell us the parts we need, even though it is not feasible for them to design a complete kit for our trucks?

I wonder why relocating the fuse/fuse holders to a different, cooler, location was not an option? Hell, even in cab!

Under $100 is an awesome fix, hell, even at $150, thats an awesome fix. I will spread the word.

Thank YOU to Hattrick for getting with Tripac!!

[hennie]

I can't speak for somebody else, but, maybe JDM can be of any help now that they discovered the problem.
after all they are providing the wiring loom for their own electric fan kit, and they know how to make these things properly, so maybe if you ask Jim....

Hennie

[haulin S331]

I'm all for it, If you would get alist of the parts they used and put it together I would buy one. Haulin S331. P.S photos would be helpful :smile:

[Saleen190]

Im DEFINATELY in on buying the kit if someone has the engineering know how to do it!!!! Agreed, anything under $200 bucks woulda been a steal to fix this issue....I was expecting way more, and Im sure if, as stated above....that jdm made us a fix kit with this info, it's a safe bet it will cost you more than $100. Hattrick....so glad you got your truck fixed and thanks for putting in the time and being the geanneau pig for the rest of us. Looks like its a win -win for everyone involved. Now, we just all need the parts and directions.

[gomez331sc]

im in on purchasing this kit also or all the parts to fix this problem. summers commin an i want to drive without FLAMES!

[Saleen190]

did anyone ever get the part numbers to put these kits together? Ill buy the first one if somebody can produce one like what tripac put on his to correct the issue

[haulin S331]

How is it going with the fan update Hattrick ? We have not heard anything in a couple of weeks. Sure hope this update is working out. If you get the time let us know what you think. Haulin S331.

[hattrick]

Sorry for the delay guys but I wanted to give the parts on my truck a chance to prove themselves. My fans are still running great although we really have not had much warm weather yet. Attached is a link for the list of components TriPac used. This is something that can be done on your own as long as you take the time and make sure each connection is done right. The best route is to solder the wires into each connector.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu24/txsaleen/FanComponentUpgrade5-1-09.jpg

[Light02atl]

how about some pics of the install?

[Saleen190]

did anyone ever get the part numbers to put these kits together? Ill buy the first one if somebody can produce one like what tripac put on his to correct the issue



:mad: well...BOTH of my fans simultaneously took a sh*t on me yesterday!!! The great news was we were at the beach..... 6 hours from home. Good times :rolleyes:. Once I got it cooled down we were able to drive it home with no problems thank god, fortunately it was evening and it rained most of the way home and there was no traffic so we were able to run highway speeds the whole way and keep cool air running through it. So, Im in the market for a fan kit. Who has troyers and who has JDM's and what do you think of it?

[Saleen190]

Sorry for the delay guys but I wanted to give the parts on my truck a chance to prove themselves. My fans are still running great although we really have not had much warm weather yet. Attached is a link for the list of components TriPac used. This is something that can be done on your own as long as you take the time and make sure each connection is done right. The best route is to solder the wires into each connector.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu24/txsaleen/FanComponentUpgrade5-1-09.jpg


hattrick....was this a simple "rip out our crappy parts and replace with these parts".....or was there some manipulating of parts and pieces involved??

[Light02atl]

When speaking with Mike about his kit, he needed to know the size of the radiator core to determine if his kit would work.

Did your fan motors go out or did your SPAL fan controllers/relays go out?

[hattrick]

Even with all of the trouble I had with mine, the only time both fans went out at the same time was when the Spal controller went out. When the truck is running you should see some of the lights on the controllor on as she comes up to temp. I spoke with an engineer at Spal and there is a way to jumper around the controller which is what I did but I don't recall which wires to jumper to. I would give those guys a call and make sure its not your controller. The relays can be picked up at most parts stores.

[Saleen190]

the lights on the controller ARE still on. Atleast the controller on the passenger side fender atleast. Is there one for both fans or is this the only one? Seemed like I remembered someone saying there was a second one for the other fan in the fender towards the front somewhere. And the next question since the controller is still lighting up.....this means it is the relay right? So can I just pick up a new relay to temporarily fix it until I can decide which route to take to correctly fix it? any help would be appreciated guys.

[Saleen190]

ok, just read back through this entire post and as far as I can tell we have 2 relays...behind bumper and behind battery and the one fan controller. Somebody steer me in the direction of what I need to do first addressing this issue. Im at work today and tomorrow so it wil be wednesday before I can do anything with it. Change the relays first to see if its them? I checked the fuse in the passenger side kick panel that says it controls the fan clutch and its good....is there anothe rfuse somewhere to the fans that I can check just to make sure that it isnt something simple like that? It does seem odd that both of them went out at the same time so a fuse blowing would make since. We had parked the truck for about 10 minutes with it running while we loading it up to come home....when we got in was when i realized the fans werent working. The fact that it had been running 10 minutes with the air on and it was 100 **** degrees in the truck and the freaking temp gauge was pegged out que'd me in pretty quickly :rolleyes: they both worked fine the day before with no problems....both just seemed to go out during the loading of the luggage apparently. any ideas?

[hattrick]

Sent you a PM with some detail.

[Saleen190]

ok chime in with ideas....after getting some useful info from hattrick heres where I'm at. I did have one bad fuse that I replaced and went ahead and changed both fuses just for good measure. So now the drivers side is operating. still no passenger side. The fuse in the kick panel has been checked and its good, both fuses from the battery have been replaced, the contoller seems to be working properly (especially since the drivers side fan is operating now) I have checked both relays and they look perfect, not melted or look like they got to hot as many have described theirs did. so, any ideas why the passenger side isnt coming on?

[Saleen190]

Sent you a PM with some detail.

hey hattrick, is there anyway you might can list the parts used to fix your fans in a post? The pic of the parts list is really hard for me to make out and it looks like Im going to try it this way too. I'll be guinnea pig number 2 for the tripac fix then we'll have 2 testers. thanks man.

[hattrick]

Sorry, I didn't realize the scanned copy couldnt be read. Here is the list of parts:

Relays: Tyco 75 Amp, Double Contact (2 Required)
Part Number: 1904000-1
Vendor: http://www.powell.com/ (http://www.powell.com/)

Fuse Holders: In-Line Maxi Fuse Holder, 8AWG (2 Required)
Vendor: http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/product_p/fh-maxi.htm (http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/product_p/fh-maxi.htm)

Fuses: 30 Amp Maxi Fuse (2 Required)
Available at any parts store

Pics Coming

[hattrick]

Here are some pics of the components installed. As you can see, I usually put heat shrink over the connections for a little extra protection. Just a reminder that the relays are a post style connection which is different than what the trucks came with so you will need to grab some connectors also.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu24/txsaleen/101_0355.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu24/txsaleen/101_0356.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu24/txsaleen/101_0357.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu24/txsaleen/101_0364.jpg

[Light02atl]

Where do the wires come from that go to the TYCO unit?

Did you have to remove anything or just add the parts shown?

Also, thanks for the pics!

The Fuse holders are $11.50 each
The Fuses are $1.50 each
Tyco Relays: $20.00 each @ http://www.keefeperformance.com/kprelay.html

[Saleen190]

well went a step further today. I took the relay out of the working side (passenger side) and plugged it into the nonworking side (driver side) and that fan still doesnt come on...? put the relay back in the pass side and that fan immediately kicked on. So the passenger side is out of the equation now. the drivers side has a new fuse, had a known working relay put into it, the controller is kicking the other fan on so I have no idea what to look at/check out /investigate next to correct this. Someone give me some ideas, surely me and hattrick arent the only ones who have had to trouble shoot this system. Is it possible for the controller to only turn on one fan and not the other or when it goes out does it go out all together and niether of them work?? The only other idea I have is that since everything so far on the drivers side seems to check out is that maybe the fan motor burnt up/went out.....so the only other test I can think of is to straight wire that fan to the battery for a second to see if it will come on that way....if it does then atleast I know the fan is ok and I can use hattrick's set up and fix it all......if the fan itself is toast and has to be replaced then im just gonna trash the whole system and put the jdm kit in I thinnk. Somebody throw some ideas at me on what else to check on that one fan....I cant believe nobody elses on here has failed yet.

[mtrunner1]

try unplugging the connection on the good fan and plugging it into the non working fan and see if the fan works. Will have to take fan shroud cover off in order to do this. The fan motors are Bosch units and as far as I can tell are bullit proof. The relays, and fuses suck.. I replaced with Toyer units and have no problems...

[Saleen190]

thanks mtrunner, thast actually what I just went and did and came back to find you post. During all this I got my own self confused....its the drivers side that is working...not the passenger side. So I did as mtrunner said and unplugged the connection from the driver side fan (runs along the outside of the radiator on mine) and plugged it into the harness that I believe is the passeneger side fan. (on the pass side right beside the radiator there are actually 2 plugs that go into that one harness....I chose the one that ran behindthe radiator toward the fans) Anyway plugged that one into the working connection and still nothing. At this point Im beginning to thing that I burnt up the fan motor on the passenger side. Does anyone know what that second connection on the passenger side of the radiator goes to? It looks JUST like the connection that goes to the drivers side fan.....so technically there are 3 plugs that all look just alike and in the same general area as the fans...but only 2 fans. the only thing that I can think of that that connection goes to would be the IC pump. Thanks for the idea mtrunner, unfortunately no dice. Anybody else got anythign???

[Saleen190]

ok, talked to hattrick for a while tonight about what my fans ar edoing and teh problems he had with his and what tri pac did to fix his. We kinda discovered 2 things in our conversation.... apparently my fan thats inoperative has burnt the motor up, and unless someone else chimes in looks like Im the first to have that happen. All the other truck occurences have been the fuses/relays. I have trouble shot mine from the battery to the fan and all fuses/relays have been replaced, the wiring seems to be perfectly fine so if anyone else has had an actual fan itself go out please chime in. SECOND thing is, my check engine light is on since the fans went out. That also seems to be a new symptom. He said with all the repeated issues he had with his fans his CEL never came on. Anybody else? Anybody have any idea why th elight would be on in mine and not his? :confused:

[Saleen190]

ok, discovered the issue with my system. Both fans do work and are not burnt up but temporarily I only ahve the one working...however we did get the other on. That being said, all the parts that hattrick had put on his are ordered and on the way with 2 day delivery. I should havethem both up and running in a few days. If your having issues with yours check this....We found that the entire issue with mine was that the 2 40 amp fuses you have running from the battery, well obviously they are both supposed to go one to each fan. Not the case with my truck. I had one 40 amp fuse going to the drivers side fan (correct), the other 40 amp fuse line ran to my fan CONTROLLER.....and the little 10 amp fuse line stuck off to the side was actuallythe one running to my passenger side fan:eek:! So obviously we found out that my pass side fan has probably never worked b/c every time the controller sent the signal to kick that fan on it IMMEDIATELY blew every time. So long story short, me and the previous owner have been driving that truck for ever with only one fan and didnt know it. (after having both fans running at the same time and the sound of them in unison it was very obvious i had never heard them both running together) It took the other fan finally giving in to realize that it was the work horse all this time. So, Im glad to say my whole sysytem has been traced now and parts are on the way to fix BOTH mine for the first time in who knows how long. Hatrrick, hat's off to you for the time spent on the phone and info you offered. I owe you one.:biggrin:

[Saleen190]

ok , finally all my parts are in for the fan rewire. Used the same parts that hattrick gave us from tripac....only I had to get the maxi fuse holders from another site than the one listed. Regardless, everything is here and the truck goes under the knife Monday for the fix.... cant wait to get it all working "properly" , let you know how it comes out. :biggrin:

[haulin S331]

Thanks to Hattrick On the parts list Picked up my parts at a local parts store, and updated mine yesterday. I feel at ease that it is done the way it should have been. A BIG THANKS GOES OUT TO HATTRICK FOR RUNNING WITH THIS PROBLEM AND GETTING A FIX. Haulin S331.

[Light02atl]

Clay (Saleen190) and I discussed this....


Will someone draw out in MS paint or on paper and scan in a little wiring diagram showing where everything goes? This will certainly help others in the future.

[Saleen190]

I can DRAW it tomorrow and post it up but drawing is the best I can offer, haulin...if you have any skill with paint go ahead I just have no talent there. :redface:

[haulin S331]

Well not good at drawing, but if you look close at the wire it self you will see it will tell were it goes (battery) (fan) (controller) it is real small writing but it is there. Also each of the termals on the relay have numbers (85) (86) . Hope this helps Haulin S331.

[Light02atl]

Clay,

Draw it up as best you can and email it to me and I will make up a schematic and post it.

[Saleen190]

ok, Ive got it drawn up but as luck would have it our scanner here at the base is tits up....i'll email it to you in the morning when i get home, Im hoping I have drawn up what your wanting.

[Saleen190]

shane, check yuor email...sent the diagram

[Saleen190]

ok, things didnt work out like I had hoped. My tuner got consumed in a cobra he was having fuel issues with today so he couldnt get my fans done as planned. So I left the truck with him and going to pick it up thursday mormning finished. Glad to be getting it done but really wanted to see the work done...not that I really could helped, just curious to see how bad the wiring was when he tore into it. Either way, its been dropped off with all the upgraded parts and will be done tomorrow, Ill pick it up thursday and try to figure out how to post some pics on here. The plan is to relocate both my new relays up beside the fan controller so they are more accessible and eliminate 2 unneccessary connections they put in the line to the driver fan. Ill post an update when I get her back

[burnouts331]

I really hope the wiring diagram comes out good. I hope to purchase the parts soon so I can put my electrical fans back in the truck (I now have the mechanical fans in). I can't wait to hear the humming sound they make again.

[Saleen190]

I really hope the wiring diagram comes out good. I hope to purchase the parts soon so I can put my electrical fans back in the truck (I now have the mechanical fans in). I can't wait to hear the humming sound they make again.

well Im definately no artist but maybe shane can clean them up a little bit. Talked to greg earlier today. My truck is finished and fans are runnign flawlessly. However, Before he tore into it he said he started to realize that even after the rewire as planned...there was probably still gonna be an issue with overheating/melting even the upgraded relays. he ended up calling Spal and talked to one of their tech guys who agreed with him that if wired in the same cinfiguration that saleen put them in, it was still gonna be an issue. So, anyway, Spals tech guy gave him their recommended way of wiring these up.....Im not sure how different it is from what tripac did with hattricks but i'll see first thing Thursday morning. They both seemed to agree that the way he did it is a better way so we'll see. either way, I m just glad they are running correctly now. After I pick it up I'll get a better explanantion of what he did and have him draw out a diagram of it/take some pics of all the changes and email em to shane....he can post them up on here for you guys.....BUt Hey....Im back in the game with 2 working fans now!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: no I can get to the dyno and work on tweaking out my troyer tune!!

[Saleen190]

so I picked the truck up this morning and I can breathe a sigh of relief and say I have two properly functioning fans now. The wiring is a little over my head though but I will try to explain. One problem with mine was that the fan controller was actually wired to cut the ground out of mine during operation to control the fan speed, rather than wired for the controller to actually just turn the **** things on and off...teh second problem is the one that shane found out earlier for us.....the relays/controller/fans all pull different amounts of voltage so they are not rated to work anywhere even close to each other. The controller pulls a constant 25 amps, the fans pull a constant 35 amps....hence part of the reason relays were melting. Teh fans were pulling more current than the relays and controller were able to provide.....fortunately the relays and fuses were blowing and our controllers didnt burn up like in the unfortunate case Hattrick had. So, my tuner and Spal tech came up with a properly working schematic for the whole sysytem and mine seems to be workin beautifully....so far. on the post relays that tripac used....splice the single grey and orange wires coming out of the fan controller into 2 seperate sets of grey/orange wires and run one set of these grey/orange wires to EACH RELAY. (The grey wire is the trigger wire and the orange wire is the ignition wire for the relays) they both go to the same post together).....then the post above that one is your hot wire from the battery which also has your new 30 amp maxi fuse holders on it that tripac suggested . the diagonally opposite post is the hot wire FROM the relay to the fan. we grounded both fans together on the passeneger side fire wall. Both relay are relocated to behind the battery, side by side also along side the fan controller. Now that all being said....after discussions with shane and hattrick, I believe all of our trucks were wired up by different people so we may all have different initial set ups. Chances are yours isnt like mine was, I know hattricks wasnt. I hope this helps, I'll try to answer any questions that I can but remember Im not an electrician, thats why I paid someone else to do this for me. I'll post some picks below and maybe that will help

[Saleen190]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38648875@N08/3552001626/

http://http://www.flickr.com/photos/38648875@N08/3552001636/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38648875@N08/3552001642/

http://http://www.flickr.com/photos/38648875@N08/3552001652/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38648875@N08/3552001630/

Hope these help some...I know its hard to see but thast a very tight place to try to get a camera into

[Saleen190]

well **** the pics didnt transfer over. I'll try to figure it out:confused::confused:

[Saleen190]

http://saleenforums.soec.org/www.flickr.com/photos/38648875@N08/3552001626/

[Saleen190]

please pm me for pics

[331Dave325]

Was it ever determined if this problem affected all S331's or just the earlier production numbers? I have 325. I am overseas and my wife is taking my truck out of storage once a week to drive it around and put it back. I am deathly afraid the fans will fail while she is driving, as I am worried she might not monitor the gauges as closely as I would. It's summer in FL after all. I would hate to lose my truck after only driving it for a month and getting to put a few thousand miles on it.

[Saleen190]

Dave Im not sure about that...I would assume that this is a common problem all the way acrooss the board. According to the tech thattalked to greg these fan contollers are not designed to support the current that these boush fans require and that in itself is the reason that the relays and fuses are blowing. Apparently by wiring it up the way they did mine yesterday it somehow changes th eactual wai in which the controller works reducing some of the load on it. i wish I knew enough about it to explain in more detail but I dont. When I have more time Im gonna sit down withhim and have him write out an exlpanantion for me that I can post up for you guys. As far as your wife driving the truck is concerned...I wouldnt worry about it too much. After all this we discovered that from day one I have only had one fan operating the entire time. when that one fan went out I was in florida (p.c) and drove it all the way back home to north alabama (320 miles) with no problems whatsoever and no fan at all. You have to remember...if you are driving faster than 40mph you are giving the radiator more cool air than those fans produce anyway so as long as she was not stuck in a traffic jam she should easily be able to get it home. Just needs to keep moving.

[Light02atl]

Dave,

Different people wired different trucks, im sure. So, HOW they are wired.....and which ones are wired the correct way is a crap shoot.

Clay,

I will work up a wiring diagram tomorrow based on your post. I will send it to you to verify before I distribute it.

[hattrick]

Even if the fans were wired "correctly" on some trucks, the fuses and relays will cause them to fail in time.

Nice move putting both relays up by the controller Clay!

[Saleen190]

cool, just send it to me and I'll compare it to mine....sorry, it was just really hard to get a good angle where you could see everything very well in the pics....just too tight of a shot and the freakin battery is covering too much of it up.....if there was more slack in the lines I could move it more to get a better view. just let me know if you need mor einfo or pics and I'll do what I can. maybe between the 3 of us we can get this fixed for everybody.



Dave,

Different people wired different trucks, im sure. So, HOW they are wired.....and which ones are wired the correct way is a crap shoot.

Clay,

I will work up a wiring diagram tomorrow based on your post. I will send it to you to verify before I distribute it.

[Light02atl]

clay, sent you an email with info and a rough draft. Let me know if I have things right before I move to a cleaned up final draft.

[Saleen190]

for sur ethey would have with those cheap fuse holders and teh amps the have to draw....spal told greg that fan controller was never made to work in comjunction with those fans and he couldnt believe they used them together anyway...they arent rated the same so it was abad idea from the every beginning but maybe we have found a fix for em now. thanks for the help and I wish I could take credit for relocating the other relay but I had nothing to do with it....I was at work while greg did everythihng....but it is pretty smooove...:biggrin:

Even if the fans were wired "correctly" on some trucks, the fuses and relays will cause them to fail in time.

Nice move putting both relays up by the controller Clay!

[hattrick]

Just a quick update for those out there who may have been waiting to see if the TriPac solution worked. The new relay and fuse components have now been on my truck for almost 3 months and we have had 16 days at or above 100 degrees here in DFW. Both fans are still working great and I have not any issues.

[haulin S331]

HATTRICK A BIG THANKS goes out to you for taking the time out , and using your S331 for the update on the fans, I have not had any trouble with mine using the relay update. Haulin S331.

[Saleen190]

HATTRICK A BIG THANKS goes out to you for taking the time out , and using your S331 for the update on the fans, I have not had any trouble with mine using the relay update. Haulin S331.

Mine are still alive and kicking as well!!!

[331Dave325]

Anyone know if the wiring harness for the e-fans on Ebay is the same as the original harness, or one that was intended to solve the e-fan wiring problem?

[rmehuron]

I've read through this thread and done some research. Thanks for the great information - I too am impressed that Tripac took the time to investigate a SALEEN issue. You may have seen my other thread about a high output alternator, etc which still did not solve the problem. My relays and fuses have yet to fail, I am just trying to rid the truck of the tremendous power load when the fans kick on. 30amps each for the fans is a rediculous amount of current! Its no wonder why we are having these issues as a 60 amp "shock" to the system is difficult to handle! Sounds like the best solution is to replace the fans with another setup. Before doing this I am going to break down the wiring schematic this weekend and see if I can lesson the amp draw by using heavier guage wiring and different relays. It would also help to route the ground directly to the battery and not the firewall.

I havent completely looked at the setup yet, but it may be advantagous to use two relays and use the controller simply to activate the relays instead of having the battery power run through it to the primary fan. If these controllers are not made to handle the amperage it would do nothing but decrease the voltage to the system, hence leading to a spike in amps (V=IR). I am curious to see what the voltage drop is across the Spal controller. If they are already wired up to two separate relays then the current draw of the fans may simply be too much for our systems. Too bad there wasnt a way to wire them where they turn on at 1/2 speed intially and increase to full speed after 10sec or so to lesson the initial burden on the system. Who knows, regardless its become a nice "winter project"

[gomez331sc]

i as of yet havent had any issues,except for the great draw when the fans kick in (only have 10K an away for the snow season) but have been waiting to hear fo something that is gonna fix this issue. ill keep reading on. thanks guys.

[Saleen190]

Rmehuron, I can save you a ton of trouble. I have the shematics already drawn up for the fan systems from the work we all did trying to fix this issue. Shoot me an email address and I can get you all the information we have on the whole fan set up. Could save you alot of time and trouble. Saleen190@yahoo.com

[haulin S331]

And there still working with the new relay set up & wiring thanks to the man HATTRICK. Haulin S331.

[rmehuron]

Rmehuron, I can save you a ton of trouble. I have the shematics already drawn up for the fan systems from the work we all did trying to fix this issue. Shoot me an email address and I can get you all the information we have on the whole fan set up. Could save you alot of time and trouble. Saleen190@yahoo.com

Thanks, I'll send you an email. I glanced through the system this weekend to discover that they already wired the relays in the fashion I was planning, so no luck there. I also noticed that they used 40amp fuses in my setup. Here is what I did:

-Added a 4 gauge feed line from alternator to the battery
-Directly gounded the alternator with a 4g ground wire to the battery
-Directly grounded the fans to the negative terminal on the battery
-Added HID headlights (less power draw at 35 watts) - directly wired to the battery with relay.
-Optima yellow top
-200 amp alternator w/ smaller pulley

In the end, the truck does not "bog" anymore when the fans kick on/off. Also, the headlights do not "flicker". The only symptom that remains is that the dash lights will "slightly" dim when they kick on. However, it is a 80% improvement from before - hardly noticable. :smile:

[Maverick2004054]

I've just recently started having problems with my fans, about 15,000 miles on my truck now. After towing my jetskiis I found that they stopped working, Checked the fuses and found both of them blown, The ones in there were 40 Amps too. I replaced them with 40 Amp fuses, but now they are "Short Cycling" Not sure if the temperature is set correctly on the controller, anyone know what the cut in and cut out temperatures are? I believe mine is set to 190*F for the Low and 220*F for the High Set Point. Below is the link to the instruction manual from SPAL if people are still having problems, I think my only problem right now is the wrong settings on the Controller. I plan on trying a Direct Replacement 35A Relay, just havent had the time to get to the parts store with work. Also if you read the manual, When the Controller hits the low set point only one fan will turn on, the other will start when the Engine Coolant Temperature Reaches the High Set Point or Both will turn on when the Air Compressor Cycles On. So in theory if your engine temp never reaches the high value, you technically are only using one fan, unless you have the A/C on. http://www.spalusa.com/pdf/FAN-PWM_SPEC.PDF#view=FitH

[Maverick2004054]

OK, I really need help..... No one has responded since my last post and I still cannot figure out why my SPAL controller will not accept the temperature programming that I have it set up for. I've tried everything from a 10* Difference to a 60* difference between the high and low. If anyone still has this setup, can some one PLEASE find out at what temps the fans are kicking in at without the AC on? I have been using the monitor program on my programmer to watch the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) to program the Fan Controller, but the program wont stay saved.... I am trying to get it back to the Stock settings which never failed in the first place, I just blew a fuse. Thanks and I appreciate your help.