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2005-2009 Saleen Mustang For all S281, S302, H281 and H302 models based on the Ford S-197 Mustang platform, with the exception of the S302 PJ (see below). Be sure to specify year, model and equipment if asking for help.

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  #1  
Old 02-27-2017
BradPlachter BradPlachter is offline
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Default Brenspeed Stage 3 Upgrade (Value Impact)

I have a stock 2005 S281 SC with 20k miles. It is all factory, except for aftermarket 20" wheels and a K&N cold air intake. Supercharger pulley still has factory seal and motor is unmolested.

I am looking for opinions on how a supercharger boost upgrade and tune would effect the value of the car.

Information on kit below:

Brenspeed Custom Saleen Stage 3 "Corvette Killer" Upgrade Package.

FITS 05-2010 MUSTANG GT equipped with a Saleen series VI supercharger package

Our turn key Saleen Stage 3 supercharger package is a complete kit that includes everything you need to convert your current supercharger to a 530 HP package. You get a 3.4 supercharger pulley producing 9.5 psi of boost (boost varies based off of RPM and altitude), belt, a JLT cold air intake, 39 lb. injectors, Kenne Bell Boost-A-Pump, Vacuum line kit that improves fuel system efficiency, one step colder spark plugs, and a custom Brenspeed tuned SCT X4 programmer.
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  #2  
Old 02-27-2017
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tbar tbar is offline
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It may affect the value slightly. If I remember right the 2005 was down on HP compared to the later years. You can always put it back to stock if you sell. The stage 3 kit will really wake the car up.
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2017
BradPlachter BradPlachter is offline
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Thank you for the feedback. The original supercharger pulley has a factory seal that voids the warranty if removed. I'm not concerned about the warranty, but rather if tampering with the engine will cause the car to lose value. Or on the other hand, if an upgraded Saleen would have an upgraded value. Or if people view an add on like this as no big deal, as the internals are all intact. Opinions?

Based on what I read on the 2005:

Supercars.net: "The supercharger used in the 2005 S281 SC is an all-new innovative design, which Saleen has several patents for. Called the Saleen Series VI integrated TwinScrew supercharger, the Saleen design integrates the previously separate intake manifold, blower housing/assembly and intercooler into one compact unit that nestles neatly into the valley between the heads. This allows for a much wider intake manifold. The blower assembly contains twin screws, which push 2300 cc of air per rotation versus 1600 cc for last year’s supercharger. As a result, the supercharger turns slower for equivalent boost, producing lower stress and lower air charger temperatures."

Mustang360: "When testing the first Saleen S281, we were surprised to see the system developed just 3.5 psi of boost, but according to Spruill, that's all Saleen needed to reach its goal of 400 hp. "We had an expectation of output, and the efficiency of the design allows for a lot less heat," he says, "so we are able to reach the performance goal with less boost. The kit is designed to make 4 psi. It would have taken a lot more boost with older designs to accomplish that level of power."
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  #4  
Old 03-01-2017
BradPlachter BradPlachter is offline
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I had the car dyno tested last night to establish a baseline.

445 flywheel hp
345 rwhp
5.5 lbs of boost

The air:fuel ratio was leaning out at higher RPM towards 15. The only modification on the car is a K&N cold air intake.

For those interested in results from the Brenspeed Stage 3 kit. I will post an update if I choose to go that route.

I've had other conversations on the value impact of tampering with the factory setup and some feel it could have more value stock, in 30 years, but shouldn't have much effect over the next 20 or so.
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  #5  
Old 03-01-2017
jeff beaudry jeff beaudry is offline
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Default air/fuel ratio

You say: The air:fuel ratio was leaning out at higher RPM towards 15.

I hope your tuner stepped up and told you that is too lean at WOT. my thought in safe air/fuel ratio would be in the 11.5 range at WOT, just saying!
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  #6  
Old 03-01-2017
BradPlachter BradPlachter is offline
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I agree. Yes, the tuner raised concern over the reading. When the 2nd pull confirmed the elevated reading from the first pull, he chose to check all sensors and short pull on the 3rd.

I ranged from 12.25 to 14.5.

The cold air intake was added before I bought the car.

My thoughts on probable cause:
- The car was not calibrated to the increased air flow from K&N air intake
- The variable exhaust is causing a skewed reading (they probed the pipes that face the ground under neath and not the middle tips).
- Fuel pump or some other reason the fuel is not keeping up.

The approach from the tuner is to scan the current tune and send to Brenspeed prior to installation of stage 3 kit that will include a custom tune, boost-A-pump, vacuum lines, cold air intake, belt, pulley, etc. The new setup should take care of the problem.

I've attached a copy of the results.
Attached Thumbnails
BRAD1.jpg  

BRAD2.jpg  

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  #7  
Old 03-03-2017
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aussie424 aussie424 is offline
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I purchased a 2006 Saleen 281, with 35K kms on it, about 3 months ago. It had been upgraded to a 281SC by the previous owner. i.e. it had the Saleen supercharger and all other Saleen bits fitted so that it was indistinguishable from a genuine 281SC - the only omission was the dash pod instruments. I fitted those - but that is another story.
The vehicle was not running very well, and power was well down, so I tried to get it Dyno tuned - I'm in Sydney Australia. The tuner could not tune it as they could not access the Saleen locked PCM.
I therefore purchased the Brenspeed stage 3 upgrade (530HP). I did this after Brenspeed assured me that their tune on the SCT hand tuner, would defeat the Saleen lock on the PCM.
I did all of the work myself, including the tune. the work was not as difficult as I had feared. The only thing missing from the upgrade kit was the vacuum line kit - not sure why?. I also got the 39lb fuel injectors.
The upgrade made a tremendous difference to the vehicle - it now performs as it was intended to. I would therefore recommend the stage 3 kit from Brenspeed - the kit itself and the service from the guys at Brenspeed was excellent. You can also fit the kit yourself if you are a little mechanically minded - you do not need to be an experienced mechanic.
I had a Dyno power run done to check power output. I'm getting 316kW (425HP) at the rear wheels. The tuner estimates 520HP at the flywheel. On the first power run,there was also an issue with lean running at higher revs. The tuner found there was a vacuum hose not connected properly. Once he corrected this, the engine runs sweetley right up to maximum revs.
I will attempt to attach the dyno graphs - the 2 lines on the graph are the before and after the vacuum line fix. Good Luck
Attached Thumbnails
afr1.jpg  

afr2.jpg  

IMG_0406.JPG  

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  #8  
Old 03-04-2017
kingstang kingstang is offline
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Any issues with low speed hesitation before getting to operating temp with the stage 3 kit?
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  #9  
Old 03-04-2017
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It runs sweetly, without hesitation, from idle to full revs.
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  #10  
Old 03-04-2017
kingstang kingstang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussie424 View Post
It runs sweetly, without hesitation, from idle to full revs.
Ok great...... My buddy had the stage 3 kit and it always hesitated at low rpms when the engine was cold. He never could figure it out, he eventually went with one of JDM tunes.
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  #11  
Old 03-06-2017
BradPlachter BradPlachter is offline
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Aussie, thank you for sharing!
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2017
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Brenspeed stage 3 kit:
I've been running the Stage kit for 9 years 40k miles and love the kit.
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2007 Shelby GT, Saleen SC Stage 3 with 3.0 pulley,mosaleen tensioner sys. UCA,LCA,BMR A arm Brace, SVE Dark Stainless 18x10's, Nitto NT05's, MGW Shifter, Pypes LT's with off-road X pipe, Bassani Axle backs, FRP 3.73's,BMR Watts Link, Steeda shaft loop, JLT 110mm CAI, FRP valve Covers, Brenspeed tuned. 12.425@114.63 4800 feet on Nitto 555's. Latest dyno is 492hp/463tq.
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  #13  
Old 05-05-2017
BradPlachter BradPlachter is offline
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Brenspeed stage 3 kit installed and dyno'd. The car produced 419rwhp on a hot Florida day @ 11afr. I also get a little hesitation, occasionally, until the motor is warmed up, otherwise, runs smooth through all rpm. There is a significant increase in whine from the supercharger at 10 lbs of boost vs 5 lbs, in which I thoroughly enjoy.
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  #14  
Old 05-05-2017
kingstang kingstang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradPlachter View Post
Brenspeed stage 3 kit installed and dyno'd. The car produced 419rwhp on a hot Florida day @ 11afr. I also get a little hesitation, occasionally, until the motor is warmed up, otherwise, runs smooth through all rpm. There is a significant increase in whine from the supercharger at 10 lbs of
boost vs 5 lbs, in which I thoroughly enjoy.
Have you figured out whats causing the hesitation before warming up?
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  #15  
Old 05-05-2017
BradPlachter BradPlachter is offline
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I have not figured it out, however, it's been very minimal. I have the SCT X4 programmer and confirmed all settings are correct (that I can control). Overall, I'm very happy with the performance. Did the JDM tune solve the problem?
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Old 05-05-2017
kingstang kingstang is offline
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It went away after installing the JDM tune.
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  #17  
Old 05-10-2017
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I posted earlier that I've been running the Stage 3 kit for 9 years. I changed my CAI from a 90mm FRP setup to a JLT 110mm system a few years back and upgraded the tune from Brenspeed. My car developed the same hesitation you've described. I've talked to Brenspeed and datalogged for them without ever figuring out what the issue is. I've cleaned the MAF, checked for a leak etc. I bought a JDM tune for my car and the hesitation goes away as soon as I load the tune? I've also read about others with similar issues running Brenspeed tunes. I wish I was located closer to them so they could drive the car and experience the hesitation. I've compared my JDM and Brenspeed tunes on a dyno and the Brenspeed produces more power but you have to live with the hesitation.
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2007 Shelby GT, Saleen SC Stage 3 with 3.0 pulley,mosaleen tensioner sys. UCA,LCA,BMR A arm Brace, SVE Dark Stainless 18x10's, Nitto NT05's, MGW Shifter, Pypes LT's with off-road X pipe, Bassani Axle backs, FRP 3.73's,BMR Watts Link, Steeda shaft loop, JLT 110mm CAI, FRP valve Covers, Brenspeed tuned. 12.425@114.63 4800 feet on Nitto 555's. Latest dyno is 492hp/463tq.
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  #18  
Old 05-11-2017
BradPlachter BradPlachter is offline
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I am curious what HP difference you saw between the tunes.
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  #19  
Old 05-11-2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradPlachter View Post
I am curious what HP difference you saw between the tunes.
Here you go. This was with shorty tube headers and the Ford Racing 90mm CAI and a 3.2 pulley at 4900 feet in elevation. I've since moved to Long tube headers, 3.0 pulley in the summer and the JLT CAI.
Attached Images
  
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2007 Shelby GT, Saleen SC Stage 3 with 3.0 pulley,mosaleen tensioner sys. UCA,LCA,BMR A arm Brace, SVE Dark Stainless 18x10's, Nitto NT05's, MGW Shifter, Pypes LT's with off-road X pipe, Bassani Axle backs, FRP 3.73's,BMR Watts Link, Steeda shaft loop, JLT 110mm CAI, FRP valve Covers, Brenspeed tuned. 12.425@114.63 4800 feet on Nitto 555's. Latest dyno is 492hp/463tq.

Last edited by tbrock; 05-12-2017 at 12:09 AM.
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  #20  
Old 05-12-2017
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One more set of dyno sheets. The first is from 2009 Brenspeed, JDM street and a JDM race tune all over layed on the same sheet. The second is from 2012 Brenspeed street tune (2 pulls) and Brenspeed race tune.
Attached Thumbnails
2009 dyno 3 runs.jpg  

dyno.jpg  

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2007 Shelby GT, Saleen SC Stage 3 with 3.0 pulley,mosaleen tensioner sys. UCA,LCA,BMR A arm Brace, SVE Dark Stainless 18x10's, Nitto NT05's, MGW Shifter, Pypes LT's with off-road X pipe, Bassani Axle backs, FRP 3.73's,BMR Watts Link, Steeda shaft loop, JLT 110mm CAI, FRP valve Covers, Brenspeed tuned. 12.425@114.63 4800 feet on Nitto 555's. Latest dyno is 492hp/463tq.
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  #21  
Old 05-12-2017
BradPlachter BradPlachter is offline
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Thank you for sharing!
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  #22  
Old 05-14-2017
cgornowich cgornowich is offline
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Default "stage 3" tune

I took my 2008 Racecraft to JDM for their equivalent of Brenspeed's "stage 3" tune (or maybe it's the other way around) and the results were awesome! Jim and his crew installed a 3.2 pulley, gt500 fuel pumps, 60lbs injectors, JLT CAI, colder plugs, the vacuum reroute and tuned her on a dyno. There's a little hesitation when cold, but only the first few minutes and I should be easy on the throttle when she's cold anyway.

The bad news (and no fault of JDM, this one is all on me), was I took her to Summit Point and threw a couple rods. I held 3rd gear past redline out of a the last turn before the long straight and she just died quietly. Not trying to be a doomsayer, just a dash of reality.

So it's time for an upgrade. I've installed a ford racing shortblock (yes, it's forged), CNC heads, mild cams, a t56 magnum and 3.73 rear gears with a torsen 2 differential. Currently wrestling with a transmission noise (only in 3rd and 4th, under load and below 2k rpm) and upgrading the IC pump. I'm looking forward to going back to JDM for another dyno tune.

Bottom line: tunes are good, but be careful out there!
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Dyno Test - JDM tune - Jan 2013.jpg  

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  #23  
Old 05-15-2017
BradPlachter BradPlachter is offline
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You took it a step further than the Brenspeed Stage 3 that typically yields 430-460rwhp. The Brenspeed kit has a 3.4 pulley and 39# injectors. Sorry to hear about your motor and good luck with your upgrade. Thank you for sharing your results.
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  #24  
Old 05-15-2017
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OneQwkStang OneQwkStang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrock View Post
Here you go. This was with shorty tube headers and the Ford Racing 90mm CAI and a 3.2 pulley at 4900 feet in elevation. I've since moved to Long tube headers, 3.0 pulley in the summer and the JLT CAI.
That Brenspeed tune is way to lean for a supercharged car.
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  #25  
Old 05-16-2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneQwkStang View Post
That Brenspeed tune is way to lean for a supercharged car.
I ran it like that for years with out issue, at this altitude I think I can get away with a little leaner tune. The new tunes for the JLT are around 11.5-11.8 AFR on my gauge (both Brenspeed and JDM). When I first got the new tunes for the JLT they were even fatter than they are now. I had to lean them out a bit working with JDM and Brenspeed via data logging to dial it in. I'll be changing out the stock cams for some Ford Racing Hot Rod cams and will be getting new tunes for them. I'll drop down from the 3.0 pulley to the 3.2 possibly back to a 3.4 depending on how it performs. My goal is to drop the boost down a little and get to similar HP numbers with the cams.
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2007 Shelby GT, Saleen SC Stage 3 with 3.0 pulley,mosaleen tensioner sys. UCA,LCA,BMR A arm Brace, SVE Dark Stainless 18x10's, Nitto NT05's, MGW Shifter, Pypes LT's with off-road X pipe, Bassani Axle backs, FRP 3.73's,BMR Watts Link, Steeda shaft loop, JLT 110mm CAI, FRP valve Covers, Brenspeed tuned. 12.425@114.63 4800 feet on Nitto 555's. Latest dyno is 492hp/463tq.

Last edited by tbrock; 05-16-2017 at 09:52 PM.
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