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1999-2004 Saleen Mustang For the SN-95 New Edge platform. Be sure to specify year, model and equipment if asking for help. |
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#1
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Help: New mods, should power numbers be higher? - 2004 S281 SC
Hey all,
I'm not a very active poster, but I've browsed this entire forum ever since I purchased my 04 sc last July. I've gained a wealth of knowledge from the community and first want to say thank you! Okay So I just had a bunch of work done, as follows; -Innovators west 10% overdrive damper- expensive, but looks badass, and keeps the blower pulley looking stock -jolt cold air intake -90mm Maf -accufab 75mm tb -ngk tr6 plugs -ev1 60lb injectors -mo saleen idler -walbro 255lph fuel pump -inter cooler heat shield -lightning performance heat exchanger/expansion tank -magnaflow catted x pipe - Dyno tuned w sct x4 Resulted in 363 rwhp and 387 tq I was disappointed when I first heard the numbers, but man the car is completely different. I'm loving it! I wanted to get everything that required a tune out of the way all at once. I skipped headers for budgetary reasons :( I am thinking of doing an aluminum drive shaft, and 373's very soon. I guess my question is this.... Should I be happy with the power I've got, which I would think is very safe on the stock internals (car has 12,000 original miles, and I am not planning on forging any time soon), or should I look into either headers, cams, or even a smaller blower pulley? I am currently pushing about 10.5lbs of boost. Would a smaller pulley be pushing it at this point (I've read that it would put me up near14lbs). I would think a smaller pulley and tune would run about $400, and get me some serious power. Thoughts? |
#2
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That does seem to be a bit low. I put down 390/423 with nearly the same mods. Only real difference I see is I changed the upper pulley instead. These blowers are super prone to heat soak. What were the outside conditions like? What elevation are you at? The catted X could also be an issue or at least contribute. Mine was done at around 75 degrees and nearly 0 elevation.
Remember though, dyno is just a measuring tool and can vary, I would bring it to the track and see what you trap to get a better idea. If you want a nice jump in power check out some blower cams. I just got a pair of HP292 cams myself. Drop in cams that don't need to be degreed or springs and gain 50+ hp at 10lb's of boost.
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Black 04-0122 S/C Series IV - Full Bolton - 2.8 pulley - Blower Cam Only 9 PSI 403whp/406wtq |
#3
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It's not really low considering you didn't change your supercharger pulley. If you want more power you should look into a new intercooler to drop intake temperature and a smaller pulley.
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07 Porsche 911 Turbo 02 Saleen S/C Speedster 3.73 gears Chicane 66mm Pulley SCT custom tune SVT Focus Fuel Pump 13" Brembo Brakes LFP Heat Exchanger and Supertank TorkTech Intake SVT Cobra single blade TB Chicane Intercooler 42lb injectors 90mm MAF FPRP Aluminum Driveshaft Maximum Motorsports LCA's, Subframes, Torque Arm, Panhard Bar, Steering Shaft, Front Control Arms and Aluminum Rack Bushings MM Coilover kit with caster camber plates |
#4
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Considering the variance of each individual dyno, your numbers might be a little higher on a different dyno in better conditions, but I think they are fine.
I would not stop there. You can safely get a little more out of it without pushing higher boost levels. I'd go with headers and get rid of the cats if you can. This should decrease the boost and intake temps and increase your flow resulting in safer power. I wouldn't change your pulley. You are already spinning the blower harder with the overdrive. Definitely change the gears and drive shaft. You won't see the huge dyno gains from them, but your ETs will. Mine makes 395/405 with the mods below and more importantly runs consistent AITs of 135 degrees or less. I'm at 4000 feet above sea level in dry climate. Keep us posted
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03S281SC 03-269 Tunable induction CAI|2.8 pulley|39# Injectors|05 Mustang GT pump|90mm MAF|75MM BBK-TB|Mosaleen idler|MAC Long tube headers|Mac Off road X|LFP-H/E and tank|Chicane I/C|5gpm pump|373 FRPP gears|NT555R 305/35ZR1|MGW shifter|FRPP Alum driveshaft|N2MB two step 86-0087 03-269 S281SC 92 LX coupe 92 LX convertible |
#5
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there is so many variables. dyno, weather, gas, timing. you cant race dyno numbers. your numbers do seem low but it is all in the details. im sure its a sold safe tune. did you run it at the quarter mile or dyno it before the mods to compare?
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#6
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Thanks for the replies guys.
I've since done an aluminum driveshaft, and 373's. Loving it so far! Wireman- I am planning on doing headers and stage one cams possibly next spring. I also purchased a tuneable induction CAI, which I'll throw on next time I need a tune. IAT's havent gone over 130 yet, but I haven't driven it in anything over 78 degree weather. I'm already planning on more for the future. I'd like to get up towards 500rwhp. Would you guys forge the internals on the stock motor, or go with a short block? Car has 12,400 original miles... |
#7
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if you want 500rwhp or close just use your stock crank, coyote rods and good pistons.
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#8
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I don't know that you'd get to 500 with the 1.6l blower. Spinning it any more you will see deminishing returns, so you'll likely need a bigger blower. I'd do the cams, port the heads and call it done. If that got you 430 it'd be perfect. Past that you will need a stouter bottom end.
A 430rwhp 3400lb car with .373s and drag radials is pretty quick.
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03S281SC 03-269 Tunable induction CAI|2.8 pulley|39# Injectors|05 Mustang GT pump|90mm MAF|75MM BBK-TB|Mosaleen idler|MAC Long tube headers|Mac Off road X|LFP-H/E and tank|Chicane I/C|5gpm pump|373 FRPP gears|NT555R 305/35ZR1|MGW shifter|FRPP Alum driveshaft|N2MB two step 86-0087 03-269 S281SC 92 LX coupe 92 LX convertible |
#9
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Wireman- Sounds like a good gameplan!
I was thinking of getting to around 430 and not over-revving the engine to help with longevity. Would you also do some shorty headers? How much does it cost roughly to port the heads? I figure at the 430hp range, if/when something goes wrong with the motor, I would rebuild, and put on a kenne bell. Current fuel/cooling mods should support 500rwhp. |
#10
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IMO, cap your goals at about 400rwhp.
Risking catastrophic failure for an extra 30hp isn't really sensible. On a street car you won't be able to tell the difference in such a low number. Even a 500hp goal with a built engine is too modest for the amount of trouble and cost you are going to go through. You certainly aren't going to make it last longer by not revving it unless you drive like an old lady, and what would be the point in the power if that's what you are going to do? Over the years I've watched so many guys go down the built shortblock, cams, heads route. It is ridiculously expensive with a modular engine. If you are paying labor for a shortblock with high end parts, cams, heads and any fuel needs along with tuning and a kenne bell, you are talking about a $15,000 (maybe more considering a KB alone is $4500) engine and that doesn't include the trans you are going to need after your breaks. It's a slippery slope. And one I probably wouldn't go down with a 12k mile car. If anything build another complete engine on the side then swap it in. 2v engines are a dime a dozen and a core to start with should be pretty cheap. It's a much better solution than deliberately ruining your factory engine, which would also be costly on the value of your car. In other words, either go all in like 600rwhp+ or just be happy at 400rwhp.
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Terminator powered foxbody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92hxg7Bg-5Y Sold xp8 2000 #30, all options including alcons |
#11
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MA Saleen-I never considered the shorties myself, most people go with mids because they are easier than long tubes. I've got long tubes on both of my saleens. I'm not sure what it'd cost to have your heads professionally ported. I would probably just gasket match them myself. When I changed the intercooler I noticed how crappy the castings are. There is a lot of opportunity for improvement.
Jcar-30rwhp is a significant gain and is a conservative estimate for cams. Getting to 400rwhp likely isn't going to happen without either really screwing the boost to it, or going the safer route with cams and increased flow. I'd opt for cams with low boost be happy wherever it ended up. I also would not waste time and money building a monster 2v, but I wouldn't be afraid to take it to 430 in the right way.
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03S281SC 03-269 Tunable induction CAI|2.8 pulley|39# Injectors|05 Mustang GT pump|90mm MAF|75MM BBK-TB|Mosaleen idler|MAC Long tube headers|Mac Off road X|LFP-H/E and tank|Chicane I/C|5gpm pump|373 FRPP gears|NT555R 305/35ZR1|MGW shifter|FRPP Alum driveshaft|N2MB two step 86-0087 03-269 S281SC 92 LX coupe 92 LX convertible |
#12
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Quote:
Besides once you pull the valve covers to do work on any modular, the costs go up and up. $800 for all the parts to do the cams and labor, depending on where you live that could be another $1200-$2000. My point is, I would do everything that can be done without going into the engine. SC pulley, maybe port the SC, headers, whatever it takes to not pull those valve covers. Headwork on modulars is also seriously expensive, consider I had my 4v heads valve jobbed and that cost $500 (no porting). Head bolts can't be removed and reused, there is another couple hundred, then you have the head gaskets themselves and the rest of the materials involved. Unless you are all in financially, it's cost prohibitive to ever take a 2v apart.
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Terminator powered foxbody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92hxg7Bg-5Y Sold xp8 2000 #30, all options including alcons |
#13
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Good discussion.
I do think you're spot on with your costs and approach. Where I stop short is at adding more boost to avoid pulling the heads. Stock 2v connecting rods are the weak link. 400rwhp at 14-16 psi is a lot harder on internal components than slightly higher hp with 8-10 psi. Too much heat and pressure is more detrimental. 86-0087 03-269 S281SC 92 LX coupe 92 LX convertible
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03S281SC 03-269 Tunable induction CAI|2.8 pulley|39# Injectors|05 Mustang GT pump|90mm MAF|75MM BBK-TB|Mosaleen idler|MAC Long tube headers|Mac Off road X|LFP-H/E and tank|Chicane I/C|5gpm pump|373 FRPP gears|NT555R 305/35ZR1|MGW shifter|FRPP Alum driveshaft|N2MB two step 86-0087 03-269 S281SC 92 LX coupe 92 LX convertible |
#14
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Hey guys. I just had cams and headers installed as well as switched out my jlt intake for tunable induction cai.
They went with Trick flow stage one N/A cams and said they work good for blower applications? Magnaflow shorties for headers. Numbers went from 363h/387tq to 387h/381tq. Boost went down from 12-14lb to 8-10 which I get due to cams. Does this power seem right. It just seems really low for all the mods I have (see first post in thread) I thought for sure I would be in the 400s with all this. Think I should have it checked out by another tuner? Thanks |
#15
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Quote:
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#16
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Sorry, I let tuner keep the intake.
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#17
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My stock '01 made 320rwhp
__________________
08-045 S281 SC, Tuned by Pro-Dyno, 3.2 SC pulley, HT0 plugs, JLT series 3 CAI, vacuum upgrade, Kenne Bell BAP, MGW shifter, JBA catted H pipe, Moroso Oil Catch can, '11 mirrors, MMD hood struts, shorty antenna. 01-001 SC, Tuned by Pro Dyno, 2.8 SC pulley, MoSaleen, CAI, Off road X pipe, Mcleod Super Street clutch, H&R Super Sport springs, shorty antenna. |
#18
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Some new updates I thought I’d share;
Had the blower printed by Steigmeier. Nice work and quick turnaround. Had them put a 2.8 upper on. Reinstalled and drove home from the garage, then to the tuner. Wanna talk about a hard ride.... try staying off the boost after not driving your car all winter! Good thing I did, as tuner told me she was very lean. Anyways, ended up with 412hp/426 tq. Very happy woth the results. The blower also whines a bit more which sounds awesome! On one pull they said she made 440hp, outdoor air temp was around 60 degrees. Curious how cool she runs on those summer 90 degree days now with the port job. Last year IATs hovered around 130 after coming down from hard pulls. Up next i am installing MM rear lower control arms, and thinking of changing tires to Toyo r888 315s rear. Currently running continental extreme contact 295s in rear. Going to toss those on my Saleen wheels to have spares for when I feel like a change. Wanna day thanks again to all the members here, searching these threads taught me a lot. Special thanks to Wireman and Trikpony for taking the time to text with me pertaining to some finer details. |
#19
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Some new updates I thought I’d share;
Had the blower printed by Steigmeier. Nice work and quick turnaround. Had them put a 2.8 upper on. Reinstalled and drove home from the garage, then to the tuner. Wanna talk about a hard ride.... try staying off the boost after not driving your car all winter! Good thing I did, as tuner told me she was very lean. Anyways, ended up with 412hp/426 tq. Very happy woth the results. The blower also whines a bit more which sounds awesome! On one pull they said she made 440hp, outdoor air temp was around 60 degrees. Curious how cool she runs on those summer 90 degree days now with the port job. Last year IATs hovered around 130 after coming down from hard pulls. Up next i am installing MM rear lower control arms, and thinking of changing tires to Toyo r888 315s rear. Currently running continental extreme contact 295s in rear. Going to toss those on my Saleen wheels to have spares for when I feel like a change. Wanna day thanks again to all the members here, searching these threads taught me a lot. Special thanks to Wireman and Trikpony for taking the time to text with me pertaining to some finer details. |
#20
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Trying to upload Dyno vid. Let's see if it goes through
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