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2005-2009 Saleen Mustang For all S281, S302, H281 and H302 models based on the Ford S-197 Mustang platform, with the exception of the S302 PJ (see below). Be sure to specify year, model and equipment if asking for help.

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  #1  
Old 06-27-2013
jaja6009 jaja6009 is offline
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Default Review: EMP/Stewart Pump Install...

Here is my review and install of the Stewart EMP Pump.

This pump is used on the Saleen Heat Exchanger Upgrade kit.
But lately it has gained interest because Lingenfelter Performance did some testing on the common pumps used in intercoolers and found the stock pump did not flow too well when there is pressure in front of it. Also thanks to the guy who did the driveway test with the Meziere pump and the stocker, you also helped me make my choice to buy this pump.

I had a Meziere 20GPM and while it worked well and was easy to install it stopped working after about a month or two. I still have to send it in to see what happened.

A good thing about the EMP pump is that it can be programmed to allow more flow if needed in the future. I am using the non programmed version from Lingenfelter. It came with a simple three wire harness and claimed that you did not have to use a relay.

This was not a total install as I already have most of the wiring up from the dual fan heat exchanger.

I have a SuperShaker so I have a big whole on the driver side engine bay where the airbox used to go, that's why I have my setup installed the way it is.

The Pump is installed on a simple metal bracket on the driver side. Picture 1.

I used a Lethal Performance Reservoir that was meant for a Whipple blown car. It goes on the driver side near the strut tower. Picture 2.

I go from the reservoir down to the pump with a 1" Line. EMP and Lingenfelter told me to us a 1" line and to use a hose that wont collapse. So I had to shop around to find a hose that is 1", coolant ready and will bend without kinking. Gates Green Stripe with wire was the perfect hose. It will bend real tight and not kink or restrict flow. It is reinforced by thick wires built in so it will hold its bends and wont collapse. Picture 3.

I also use 1" hose to go from the pump to the heat exchanger. But I used regular heater hose for that.
The next step was I went into the top of the radiator. This goes against what Ive been told about heat exchangers. I thought it was better to go from the bottom for entry and out the top for exit. But Van from Revan Racing who helped design the heat exchanger told be to do it his way.

Next 3/4 hose is at the exit of the heat exchanger and then goes up to the intercooler itself. Then 3/4 hose goes from the exit of the intercooler to the reservoir. I don't have any sharp bends in the routing as my whole point is to have good flow. The only bad routing is from the exit of the intercooler to the reservoir. I used a hose premolded with a 90* bend. I did this because otherwise the gentle bends I was using would have made the hose stick out too far and hang overtop of the alternator.

The wiring was simple since I already had some places to tap into.
I have 2 relays to power the 2 fans on the heat exchanger. They are simple 4 wire realys. Power comes form the power bolt in the BEC/Engine Bay fusebox. Both have 20amp fuses in line on the power line. I grounded both on factory grounds (I heard that this helps with and radio/electrical interference. ). The trigger wire was hooked up to a line I ran from the Smart Junction box (Passenger side kick panel). There are a couple empty spots there that are key on sources. I used an add a fuse and ran wire to the front bumper passenger side where the relays are.

The pump had a 3 wire harness. Power/Ground/Trigger.
I grounded to a common ground, ran a power line to the BEC power bolt (30 amp inline fuse) and then tapped into the trigger line for the relays for the trigger wire on the pump. Picture 4.


I always had trouble getting the stock pump or the Mezeire pump to prime. This pump primes too easy. I drained the whole system by using a radiator pressure tester to force all the coolant out. I didn't want to have coolant in the intercooler when air would be coming behind it.
After draining the whole system I then filled the reservoir. I turned on the pump by turning the key to on. The level would drop and I would refill. I did this a couple of times and the system was good.

The flow is VERY good into the reservoir.Is almost as much as a garden hose on low. The pump is not noisey at all. The fans on the heat exchanger drown out any sound it makes. There is a nice whirring sound from it that is very similar to the sound the SuperShaker makes.

I will have some data on this as soon as I can get out and drive. I will have a Youtube video of the flow going into the reservoir and of IATs as measured by my Aeroforce Intercepter gauge.

I am not claiming this as the best choice for your system. I was happy with the Meziere and a larger heat exchanger. But when it broke it gave me the excuse to get the pump that I really wanted to begin with. I think the Jabsco is a good choice since its cost is a lot less and it flows better than stock and better than the Meziere. But in the future if I add a trunk reservoir I have no doubt that this pump will be more than enough to keep that system flowing good. And if more flow is needed Lingenfelter can reprogram it for higher flow.

Also the pump is rated for 10,000 hours which is more than any of the other pumps that I could find info on.

Also here is a picture of me trying to use the stock reservoir. Looks silly. Last picture.
Attached Thumbnails
2013-06-27 15.26.30.jpg  

2013-06-27 18.33.14.jpg  

2013-06-27 14.31.38.jpg  

2013-06-27 17.26.21.jpg  

2013-06-27 14.31.10.jpg  

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  #2  
Old 06-27-2013
06SaleenExtreme's Avatar
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You did a really nice job on this installation. It will be interesting to see your data when you take the car out. Nice job on the write up and the photos. I for one, really appreciate you making this post.

Thanks !!
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  #3  
Old 06-27-2013
Jason @ 281m's Avatar
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Great write up! Curious, what direction is your flow going?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaja6009 View Post
Here is my review and install of the Stewart EMP Pump.

This pump is used on the Saleen Heat Exchanger Upgrade kit.
But lately it has gained interest because Lingenfelter Performance did some testing on the common pumps used in intercoolers and found the stock pump did not flow too well when there is pressure in front of it. Also thanks to the guy who did the driveway test with the Meziere pump and the stocker, you also helped me make my choice to buy this pump.

I had a Meziere 20GPM and while it worked well and was easy to install it stopped working after about a month or two. I still have to send it in to see what happened.

A good thing about the EMP pump is that it can be programmed to allow more flow if needed in the future. I am using the non programmed version from Lingenfelter. It came with a simple three wire harness and claimed that you did not have to use a relay.

This was not a total install as I already have most of the wiring up from the dual fan heat exchanger.

I have a SuperShaker so I have a big whole on the driver side engine bay where the airbox used to go, that's why I have my setup installed the way it is.

The Pump is installed on a simple metal bracket on the driver side. Picture 1.

I used a Lethal Performance Reservoir that was meant for a Whipple blown car. It goes on the driver side near the strut tower. Picture 2.

I go from the reservoir down to the pump with a 1" Line. EMP and Lingenfelter told me to us a 1" line and to use a hose that wont collapse. So I had to shop around to find a hose that is 1", coolant ready and will bend without kinking. Gates Green Stripe with wire was the perfect hose. It will bend real tight and not kink or restrict flow. It is reinforced by thick wires built in so it will hold its bends and wont collapse. Picture 3.

I also use 1" hose to go from the pump to the heat exchanger. But I used regular heater hose for that.
The next step was I went into the top of the radiator. This goes against what Ive been told about heat exchangers. I thought it was better to go from the bottom for entry and out the top for exit. But Van from Revan Racing who helped design the heat exchanger told be to do it his way.

Next 3/4 hose is at the exit of the heat exchanger and then goes up to the intercooler itself. Then 3/4 hose goes from the exit of the intercooler to the reservoir. I don't have any sharp bends in the routing as my whole point is to have good flow. The only bad routing is from the exit of the intercooler to the reservoir. I used a hose premolded with a 90* bend. I did this because otherwise the gentle bends I was using would have made the hose stick out too far and hang overtop of the alternator.

The wiring was simple since I already had some places to tap into.
I have 2 relays to power the 2 fans on the heat exchanger. They are simple 4 wire realys. Power comes form the power bolt in the BEC/Engine Bay fusebox. Both have 20amp fuses in line on the power line. I grounded both on factory grounds (I heard that this helps with and radio/electrical interference. ). The trigger wire was hooked up to a line I ran from the Smart Junction box (Passenger side kick panel). There are a couple empty spots there that are key on sources. I used an add a fuse and ran wire to the front bumper passenger side where the relays are.

The pump had a 3 wire harness. Power/Ground/Trigger.
I grounded to a common ground, ran a power line to the BEC power bolt (30 amp inline fuse) and then tapped into the trigger line for the relays for the trigger wire on the pump. Picture 4.


I always had trouble getting the stock pump or the Mezeire pump to prime. This pump primes too easy. I drained the whole system by using a radiator pressure tester to force all the coolant out. I didn't want to have coolant in the intercooler when air would be coming behind it.
After draining the whole system I then filled the reservoir. I turned on the pump by turning the key to on. The level would drop and I would refill. I did this a couple of times and the system was good.

The flow is VERY good into the reservoir.Is almost as much as a garden hose on low. The pump is not noisey at all. The fans on the heat exchanger drown out any sound it makes. There is a nice whirring sound from it that is very similar to the sound the SuperShaker makes.

I will have some data on this as soon as I can get out and drive. I will have a Youtube video of the flow going into the reservoir and of IATs as measured by my Aeroforce Intercepter gauge.

I am not claiming this as the best choice for your system. I was happy with the Meziere and a larger heat exchanger. But when it broke it gave me the excuse to get the pump that I really wanted to begin with. I think the Jabsco is a good choice since its cost is a lot less and it flows better than stock and better than the Meziere. But in the future if I add a trunk reservoir I have no doubt that this pump will be more than enough to keep that system flowing good. And if more flow is needed Lingenfelter can reprogram it for higher flow.

Also the pump is rated for 10,000 hours which is more than any of the other pumps that I could find info on.

Also here is a picture of me trying to use the stock reservoir. Looks silly. Last picture.
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  #4  
Old 06-27-2013
jaja6009 jaja6009 is offline
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Jason I have the flow going backwards from what Saleen had it. I asked Saleen and Brenspeed if it was OK and both said yes. Brenspeed said they had done it a couple times themselves.

I took it for a drive and so far so good. The IATs are still in the same range as the Meziere 20gpm. I don't have any hard data but the IATs do seem to come down quicker after a hard pull. It seems to come down quicker than even the Meziere. But this is all just my thoughts no hard data to prove it. As I said I was happy with the Meziere 20 GPM but hopefully this will be the last pump I will ever need for this car.
The reservoir is nice as I can now add ice to the tank while at the track. And since the system primes so easily I am now gonna start running straight water and Purple Ice for the summer and will go back to 50/50 in the fall. Right now Im running 50/50 with Purple Ice.

Overall I am happy with the system and just need some hard data to give to you guys. Over the next few days I will have links to Youtube videos of my testing.

Now I am gonna have a guy at work help me make a shroud to channel the air through the bumper opening and into the heat exchanger.

Here is a link of the flow going into the reservoir.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fup9...ature=youtu.be

A couple more things. Saleen has you mount the pump with the inlet facing up. I wanted to do this as it would of made hose routing easier. But EMP/Stewart told me while you can mount the pump like that and it will work fine, there is a question of bearing longevity in doing this. So I mounted it the way they recommend in the instruction book. Also when the pump turns on there is a one time power hit of 205 Amps (worst case). It only lasts for 270 microseconds. If you happen to start the car at the same exact time I can feel that it is stealing power from the starter. SO now I wait until the pump is already on before starting the car. The car started fine when this happened, but you could tell the starter wanted more juice.
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Old 06-30-2013
Werecow Werecow is offline
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Amazing write up. Man you weren't kidding on the flow, it does look like a garden hose!
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  #6  
Old 06-30-2013
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You can reverse it no issue at all. I was curious since your fill needs to be at the top of the tank and if you we're in standard flow direction you would have some issues. Looks great man !

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaja6009 View Post
Jason I have the flow going backwards from what Saleen had it. I asked Saleen and Brenspeed if it was OK and both said yes. Brenspeed said they had done it a couple times themselves.

I took it for a drive and so far so good. The IATs are still in the same range as the Meziere 20gpm. I don't have any hard data but the IATs do seem to come down quicker after a hard pull. It seems to come down quicker than even the Meziere. But this is all just my thoughts no hard data to prove it. As I said I was happy with the Meziere 20 GPM but hopefully this will be the last pump I will ever need for this car.
The reservoir is nice as I can now add ice to the tank while at the track. And since the system primes so easily I am now gonna start running straight water and Purple Ice for the summer and will go back to 50/50 in the fall. Right now Im running 50/50 with Purple Ice.

Overall I am happy with the system and just need some hard data to give to you guys. Over the next few days I will have links to Youtube videos of my testing.

Now I am gonna have a guy at work help me make a shroud to channel the air through the bumper opening and into the heat exchanger.

Here is a link of the flow going into the reservoir.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fup9...ature=youtu.be

A couple more things. Saleen has you mount the pump with the inlet facing up. I wanted to do this as it would of made hose routing easier. But EMP/Stewart told me while you can mount the pump like that and it will work fine, there is a question of bearing longevity in doing this. So I mounted it the way they recommend in the instruction book. Also when the pump turns on there is a one time power hit of 205 Amps (worst case). It only lasts for 270 microseconds. If you happen to start the car at the same exact time I can feel that it is stealing power from the starter. SO now I wait until the pump is already on before starting the car. The car started fine when this happened, but you could tell the starter wanted more juice.
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1996 Cobra Vortech SC / Track prepped
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  #7  
Old 06-30-2013
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FYI to those who want this pump, we have secured an amazing buy on the EMP pumps. These are limited quantities available at this price to what's left on hand. They are the standard Saleen setup, no reprogramming. I'll start a new thread in the vendor section. Thanks in advance jaja6009 for me plugging this.
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  #8  
Old 07-04-2013
jaja6009 jaja6009 is offline
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I don't know if I want to even know the price you are offering because it may make my wallet moan.


I had to route some of the hose differently. Also in the original install I tightened down the 1" line onto the 3/4 barb and knew this was only temporary until I could find a better solution. I went to Napa and they found me a premolded curved hose that is 3/4 enlarging to 1". I put the 3/4 on the tank and a hose coupler to connect the 1" to my 1" feed/inlet line. Im happier with it this way but the clamps in the engine bay take away from any clean install look. Since most of you have real Saleens I know this may not be an option since you want it to look factory Saleen. But here is a pic of hopefully my final layout.

I can now do some tests and get you guys some data.
The data will be as follows:
50/50 premix of the gold coolant.
A little Purple Ice surfactant.
Startup and a drive in varying traffic.
A stop and engine shutdown to get some heatsoak
I will then drive the same route as before with the heat soaked engine
Then a pure highway test cruising at the speed limit.
A pull from 2nd to 3rd measuring the pre temp, post temp and how long it takes to get back to ambient or close to ambient.

And when I goto the track I hope to pack as much ice into the reservoir to see what happens, but this wont be for a couple weeks.

I will measure ambient with a digital thermometer and the IAT will be measured with my Aeroforce intercepter.
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  #9  
Old 07-04-2013
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Water/Coolant ratio should be 70/30, not 50/50.
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  #10  
Old 07-05-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaja6009 View Post
I don't know if I want to even know the price you are offering because it may make my wallet moan.
$329 with a special price for the first 5 sold.
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  #11  
Old 07-06-2013
jaja6009 jaja6009 is offline
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I am changing the coolant ratio. I put 50/50 in as per the Supershaker instructions since its a pain in the but to drain and refill the system for winter. But for the sake of trying to get temps on the tests I will add the 70/30 mix using distilled water and a little purple ice. I have to also go buy a thermometer to get the ambient temps as the Aerforce Intercepter Ambient reading is almost never right. As soon as Im done typing Im gonna go change the coolant. And I should have some goo data in some heat as it is gonna be 90-92 everyday for the next 4 or 5 days. The whole reason I wanted to upgrade the intercooler system was for days like this. In the winter the car feels so much faster and high IATs never concerned me.
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Old 07-06-2013
jaja6009 jaja6009 is offline
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Ok I put in 70/30 mix and some Purple Ice. My first test was as follows.

I start up the car and jump on the highway. There are no lights and I cruise at 55mph.
Ambient was 88* as measured by a digital thermometer and also getting weather updates from a GPS phone app.
With this scenario and the fluid never getting a chance to heatsoak I got a very low IAT of 92-98* ( I started writing down the IATs after the car reached operating temp which was a couple minutes into the test. And the coolant I had just added to the car was cooler than ambient from sitting in my air conditioned house.). This held for over 5 miles.

Next test. I Drive down the highway that has traffic and stoplights. Stop and go traffic and mever going over 45mph.

Ambient 88* While moving IAT was 95*-103* and would creep up to 103-111* while at a light.


Next Test: I stop at Home Depot for 30 minutes. I come out.
Ambient is 86* and the IAT at startup are 125*. Some heatsoak has happened. As soon as I start the car the IAT was 125* but even though I don't start moving the IATs start to inch down because of the fans. As I drive through the parking lot the temps creep down faster.
I get out to a road and do 25-40mph and the IATs are now 100-114 and ambient is 86*.

So far I see that is driving is just on the highway IATs would be SUPER low. But in the real world IATs are around 15-25 over ambient.

In city driving with lights every block and 25 mph I can see the temps being much higher, especially after heatsoak has set in.

I will have a video as these figures are not perfect. I had to write down numbers and monitor gauges while trying to drive in summer tourist traffic.

My video will be the same or similar tests and also a test of a full pull through 2nd gear to redline.

Overall I am happy with the results.
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Old 07-07-2013
hazmat hazmat is offline
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Great info, thanks for your efforts & for sharing.
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  #14  
Old 07-07-2013
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Are these temps better than you were seeing with the Mezeire pump?
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Old 07-07-2013
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Which EMP pump did you install. the 2512a or the 29?

Thanks
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Old 07-08-2013
jaja6009 jaja6009 is offline
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"Are these temps better than you were seeing with the Mezeire pump? "

I cant say 100% as with the Meziere I did not do as much testing. To me it seems like it is. It seems like it cools down faster after getting a higher temp. If you have a Meziere already than it might not be a good choice. One thing it does 100% better than the Meziere is to prime. I just add coolant to the tank and turn on the pump and its forces all air out. The Meziere was a royal pain in the but to get to prime for me.

"Which EMP pump did you install. the 2512a or the 29?

Thanks "

I have the regular version that does not have the CAN programming for increased flow. Although I am curious as to if I add more flow what happens. Sorry Im not sure which one it is from the part numbers listed as it says both part numbers on the instructions. They are the same exact pump, but one has the programming for more flow and one flows as is.


Some more info. I had some gunk in my reservoir. It looked like (how to exlain it best) garlic powder in olive oil??. I blame the Royal purple.. But I cannot prove it. I was running a 70/30 mix with the FOrd gold coolant. I emptied the system and flushed it with distilled water. I have 50/50 in it for now, but will be going back to 70/30. And yes the 50/50 does not cool anywhere near as good as the 70/30 with Royal Purple.

I called Royal Purple and he blamed the coolant. I called Valvoline and they blamed the Royal Purple. And Royal Purple told me that I cannot use distilled water with more than a 50/50 mix. He said distilled water is corrosive and needs the antifreeze to make it less so. Valvoline said it was fine to use distilled water in a 70/30 mix. So who to believe? Royal Purple wants me to use a reverse osmosis drinking water for the 70/30 mix.

As I said I have 50/50 in it right now and the car runs warmer than yesterday.
What mix should I run and what water (distilled or reverse osmosis) should I use?
I tried to get some numbers in testing of how much hotter but the summer idiots are all over the road so maybe tonight.
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Old 07-08-2013
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Thanks for the note back. I was told to only run distilled water and Water Wetter in the Summer. The winter I run a 20/80 mix with the 80 being water. Its amazing how every vendor has a different opinion.
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Old 07-08-2013
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I drove the car some more. I don't have any of that gunk in the reservoir so I guess the royal purple was to blame? Im gonna put some 70/30 with the correct amount of Royal Purple in a aluminum pan and let and sit and see if I can get the gunk to come back.

I may just use pure reverse osmosis drinking water and royal purple so I can see the best results for my summer mix.

On the drive with the 50/50 at highway speeds I could still get really good results. 8-14 above ambient. But in traffic I was getting temps that were 20-30 above ambient sitting at lights and in 10-40 mph plus stops. The 70/30 + RP did better yesterday.

Im sick of taking off my bumper to change the coolant although I can get it off now in 10 minutes. A good thing is I have the lightweight Steeda radiator support brace so no need to rivet anything. Steeda makes you use zip ties to secure the rear of the belly pan to the support brace.
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Old 08-21-2014
o2sys o2sys is offline
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I know OP mentioned the flow of water is backwards but what is that?

What is OEM flow on the saleen? Hot in the passenger side then cold out the driver?
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  #20  
Old 08-22-2014
jaja6009 jaja6009 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2sys View Post
I know OP mentioned the flow of water is backwards but what is that?

What is OEM flow on the saleen? Hot in the passenger side then cold out the driver?

Stock it is cool in driver side, hot out passenger side.

Mine is opposite. I had to do it that way since my pump and reservoir are now on the drivers side. Also anyone looking for the Saleen baffles that box in the radiator and intercooler, I saw some on Ebay. I would jump on them but I am in the process of selling my car. I am gonna go with a 2015 GT auto and add a blower to that. Much easier to get to my power goals with a Coyote. But this car has been pretty awesome to me.
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  #21  
Old 08-22-2014
o2sys o2sys is offline
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You mean its hot in passenger and cool out driver?
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  #22  
Old 08-22-2014
jaja6009 jaja6009 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2sys View Post
You mean its hot in passenger and cool out driver?

I think we are talking about 2 differnt things. I was talking about the actual intercooler located in the supercharger not the heat exchanger under the bumper.

Stock is Hot into the heat exchanger on the passenger side.
Cool is out of the heat exchanger on the driver side.

But for the intercooler the cool comes in the driver side and out the passnger side and into the coolant reservoir bottle.




My setup is:
The reservoir and pump are now on the driver side.

Intercooler:
Cool in the passenger side and hot out the driver side. Then into the reservoir. Then down to the pump. Then this hot fluid goes into the heat exchanger on the driver side and the cooler fluid does out on the passenger side.

;)
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