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2005-2009 Saleen Mustang For all S281, S302, H281 and H302 models based on the Ford S-197 Mustang platform, with the exception of the S302 PJ (see below). Be sure to specify year, model and equipment if asking for help. |
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#1
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Q: Building 4.6 3V? - 2006 S281 SC
Long story (bad tune) but the "new" motor is not by choice. I'm NOT looking to gain more HP (sorry, I know that's wrong but don't ever plan on racing, and this beast was pushing over 500RWHP when I bought it) but I am wanting to stay with the factory 4.6 and add cams along with current setup for lope. Here is what is on the car.
Saleen SC VI Saleen Extreme Cold Air Intake Saleen aluminum fuel rails GT500 Dual pump fuel system Ford Racing 60 lb. injectors Mosaleen idler pulley system 3" (15 psi) supercharger pulley installed (option for 3.4"12 psi) HTO 1 Spark Plugs Diablosport hand-held, touchscreen tuner (will be re-tuned when completed) JBA Exhaust Long tube headers What cam's are suggested with my setup that would keep me within HP range for a factory 4.6 block with a good tune? I know I should go forged block and all but $$ does put some restrictions as I'm almost starting over. If I haven't given adequate info let me know what else you need to hear. |
#2
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Your going to blow your car up.
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#3
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The car has had this setup for about 15K miles without any problems. Just before I bought it the previous owner (not the owner which added the toys) messed with the tune. Me not knowing anything about tunes took his word for it. Blew it up after 5 miles. So putting new motor in and trying to bring the HP down, but want the lope. This is my first rodeo so that's why I'm asking around. If I should keep the factory cams and try to lower HP to keep from blowing it again, that's what I will do. I don't want to dump money into this just to blow it again.
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#4
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Take the 3.0 pulley off and put the 3.4 pulley on. Then you can put whatever camshaft you want in it.
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#5
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I think you have to decide how much you are really willing to pay for idling sound. I know the feeling as for I run a 4v and I miss my old pushrod engine idle. But common sense prevails and I realize that if I'm not after more hp (even in that case it's not much) it's just not worth the effort or money.
3v engines aren't known for putting up with much more than 500rwhp without going the built route, so I agree with Seelye, just take the 3.0 pulley off.
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Terminator powered foxbody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92hxg7Bg-5Y Sold xp8 2000 #30, all options including alcons |
#6
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Thanks for the help ! My first thought after reading through several threads is definitely remove that 3 inch pulley to get rid of the boost. But the 3.4 I understand only lowers it to 12lbs I think. I believe I need to lower it even more but wondering if by lowering boost will I have to part with other mods such as the 80 pound injectors and the GT 500 fuel pumps? I bought the car this way and it scares the **** out of my wife so I'm trying to make it more streetable without loosing the "power of a few" lol.
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#7
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NI: building 4.6 for my 06 Saleen SC
3.4 should be 10lbs max unless you have an over sized crank pulley.
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#8
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Sorry I fat fingered the injector size in the last post, better get my info correct since I am asking for your input. They are 60lb. Considering the cam option because the motor is already out of the car and it would be easier to do now as I also have to tune anyway. If I wait it will be more difficult in the car and I'll have to retune. More $$
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#9
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Good point Seelye. I don't think the crank pully was changed.
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#10
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You shouldn't have been seeing 15lbs with the 3.0 pulley though. Are you sure you were getting 15lbs on the 3.0 pulley?
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#11
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The only way I verified that was with the digital boost gauge. Almost instant 15 lbs when hammered.
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#12
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You really just need to keep the power below 475rwhp to the wheels if you are using factory long block replacement.
I'd probably lose the 80's for 60's or 39's with the 3.4 pulley, but i'm the type that doesn't like to be way over injectored, I like my use to be close to the need. Some guys are fine having it tuned out. The pumps i'd probably just leave. 30-50hp is negligible when you are talking 500rwhp. On the street it won't be much difference. At the track you would see it on the time slip. Sounds to me like whoever did the car originally had really big plans (80's support a really lot of power) or had no clue what they were doing. To help give you some understanding of your needs, look at the JDM stage 1, 2, 3 kits for your car with that SC.
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Terminator powered foxbody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92hxg7Bg-5Y Sold xp8 2000 #30, all options including alcons |
#13
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Thanks Jcar, and sorry I fat fingered the 80. They are 60. I want to get it back down to a safe range at the crank for what I'm using it for. But don't want to remove too much of what's been done to it already. Paying more to downsize is just not right , lol. I want to be able to put my foot in it at times without worries of blowing it again.
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#14
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Quote:
Either you aren't really using a 3.0 pulley or you have an overdrive crank pulley.
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#15
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Like Seelye says changing to a 3.4 is your best & cheapest option. There's still always going to be the possibility of blowing it up. Just make sure you have a good tune. I've got the 3.4 pulley & I see around 8 lbs of boost.
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#16
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Is there an easy way to verify the overdrive crank pully size? Markings? Everything I've verified hasn't pointed to that being an add on from previous owners.
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#17
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Stock crank pulley diameter is 6.55".
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#18
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Thanks Tbar. Hopefully the 3.4 will get me low enough. I agree, a good tune will be the first thing this car sees before it hits the road.
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#19
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I'll check Seelye.
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#20
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I measured the front side of the pulley because it is still on the motor and its 7 3/8's. Did notice the actual location were the belt sits is inset from that measurement.
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#21
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Quote:
Can you post a pic?
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#22
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Yes. Sorry trying to see how to post the pic.
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#23
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#24
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Looks like a stock one. Strange. You shouldn't be seeing that much boost with that pulley.
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#25
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Yeah, I'm pulling my hair out hear pinning down what it does and doesn't have so I can continue my build. I confirmed with my father which drove the car as well and he said yes it boosted 15lbs. He drives a pro-street drag car and he said the power in this one scared him on the street.
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#26
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Maybe you've got the the 2.87 pulley on it.
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#27
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I was told it was a 3" and everything I've found on the web related to the car states the same. Ill have to measure it.
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#28
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Measured and it is a 3" pulley
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#29
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Quote:
15lbs would take the engine a little work to get to. It really wouldn't go straight to 15psi instantly. Maybe a faulty boost gauge? I'm no fan of digital gauges for boost because i'm guessing it's hooked up to a sender. Regardless, who ever tunes it if they know what they are doing aren't going to just strap it to the dyno and run it all out. They will do a base tune and build from it incrementally. It can be a slow time consuming process for the ones that are perfectionists. They will hook up vacuum lines to the dyno and record the real boost.
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Terminator powered foxbody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92hxg7Bg-5Y Sold xp8 2000 #30, all options including alcons |
#30
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Thanks Jcar. Although I've owned an original Saleen supercharger in the past the mods on his one are new to me. Just trying to get things straight on the car as I rebuild it. Definitely will see a Dyno and a good tune once I put it back together. Maybe it's the gauge as you suggested. Hope to find out soon.
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#31
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Late to the party.... just want to re-iterate the importance of using the 3.4 inch pulley.
Also I only directly know one person that had Cams, and it was a mess. Tuners have a really hard time nailing the tune between the supercharger and the camshaft. I would talk to a few tuners, be absolutely sure they can do it, ask for examples where they have done it, and then make a decision.
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2006 3-valve - upgraded with Series VI Supercharger - 3.875 Pulley - 39 lbs injectors- Kenne Bell Boost a Pump - JBA Long Tube Headers - Steeda Cold Air Intake - Kenwood DNX6160 In Dash Navigation unit - Stuff and things |
#32
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Not too late. Thanks for the reply. Pulled the motor today. New long block being delivered tomorrow. I think I will be downsizing to the 3.4 without the cams. I am wondering now if I should drop down to the 39lb injectors and get rid of the 60lb. Thoughts anyone? With my setup I'm wanting the easiest way to lower hp without getting rid of too much. But I know some items may need to go due to overkill. Just have to figure out what I can keep and will work together.
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#33
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Quote:
You will only need 39 lb injectors with 3.4 pulley.
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#34
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60 lb is what I currently have. Do I need 39 lb or can I get away with the 60 lb without pushing too much fuel?
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#35
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Quote:
It might be fine, but your tuner would be the best person to answer your question.
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#36
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Thanks. Ill be looking for a tuner shop soon. I'll have a lot of questions for them.
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#37
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Talk to the guys at Brenspeed. I've been running their tunes in my Saleen SC'd Shelby GT for 9 years without issues. I'm at altitude so I can run a smaller pulley to adjust for the thinner air. Current setup is stock block and cams, 3.2 pulley when the weather is cool and 3.0 for the warmer month. You can read my signature for the rest of the details.Car has 52k on the odometer, many passses at the drag strip and a bunch of laps on the road course. A good tune and always use good gas is the key to longevity. I'm running 39lb injectors which will work for you and probably get better gas mileage. I also have tunes from JDM and they are great as well, but located in NJ. Brenspeed is located in Indiana so could be an easier trip, plus they have a place to stay overnight if you need it. Good luck
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2007 Shelby GT, Saleen SC Stage 3 with 3.0 pulley,mosaleen tensioner sys. UCA,LCA,BMR A arm Brace, SVE Dark Stainless 18x10's, Nitto NT05's, MGW Shifter, Pypes LT's with off-road X pipe, Bassani Axle backs, FRP 3.73's,BMR Watts Link, Steeda shaft loop, JLT 110mm CAI, FRP valve Covers, Brenspeed tuned. 12.425@114.63 4800 feet on Nitto 555's. Latest dyno is 492hp/463tq. |
#38
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Thanks for the details tbrock. New motor is sitting on the stand awaiting a new clutch. Mixed thoughts on which clutch to go with. Read several posts and talked with Jason at 281. I know of great suggestions, but still considering what's necessary for my needs and my wallet before I buy, with the realization that I'm only wanting to do this once. Considering the lack of miles I plan on putting on this car I'm wondering how long it will take me to break everything in lol. Thought I might as well swap it out since I'm this deep. Brenspeed may be my best option out here for the tune. The car had been tuned previously, just have to see what the tuner has in it once I start plugging things back in. , I've heard only good things about them.
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#39
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Quote:
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2007 Shelby GT, Saleen SC Stage 3 with 3.0 pulley,mosaleen tensioner sys. UCA,LCA,BMR A arm Brace, SVE Dark Stainless 18x10's, Nitto NT05's, MGW Shifter, Pypes LT's with off-road X pipe, Bassani Axle backs, FRP 3.73's,BMR Watts Link, Steeda shaft loop, JLT 110mm CAI, FRP valve Covers, Brenspeed tuned. 12.425@114.63 4800 feet on Nitto 555's. Latest dyno is 492hp/463tq. |
#40
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How long have you had the Exedy 500? I was looking at Mcloed Super Streetpro, it handles up to 500hp and was quoted $345 out the door. But will still have to get the slave cylinder and line. Was offered a good price for a twin disk, but after I thought about it, i agree it may be overkill for my needs.
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#41
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Hey tbrock, which Exedy Mach 500 series are you using? 3 perhaps?
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#42
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Quote:
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2007 Shelby GT, Saleen SC Stage 3 with 3.0 pulley,mosaleen tensioner sys. UCA,LCA,BMR A arm Brace, SVE Dark Stainless 18x10's, Nitto NT05's, MGW Shifter, Pypes LT's with off-road X pipe, Bassani Axle backs, FRP 3.73's,BMR Watts Link, Steeda shaft loop, JLT 110mm CAI, FRP valve Covers, Brenspeed tuned. 12.425@114.63 4800 feet on Nitto 555's. Latest dyno is 492hp/463tq. |
#43
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Quote:
Sorry missed this one. In 2012 there was only one Mach 500. The 3 has the same specs.
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2007 Shelby GT, Saleen SC Stage 3 with 3.0 pulley,mosaleen tensioner sys. UCA,LCA,BMR A arm Brace, SVE Dark Stainless 18x10's, Nitto NT05's, MGW Shifter, Pypes LT's with off-road X pipe, Bassani Axle backs, FRP 3.73's,BMR Watts Link, Steeda shaft loop, JLT 110mm CAI, FRP valve Covers, Brenspeed tuned. 12.425@114.63 4800 feet on Nitto 555's. Latest dyno is 492hp/463tq. |
#44
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Thanks for the info. I know everyone has their own experiences and everyone drives differently, but the more experiences I hear about, may help me make a sound decision. Will be buying something this week, spring is near and I want to get it on the road.
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