Q's: Paint Decals and 1985 production?

[TopGear85]

I am in the process of restoring 85-0073, it's a red hatchback with silver graphics and wheels, and a charcoal interior. The car is a bit of an oddball in that it started life as a factory TuTone GT that was originally sold from Walker Buerge Ford in California.

Recently someone posted a link to an old magazine article that talked about the Saleen Dealership network and how it was working across the country. The writer of the article (published back in 1985) asked random Ford dealerships across the country about ordering a Saleen (because Saleen boasted about being nation wide). Most of the dealerships in middle and eastern America hadn't heard of Saleen at that time, but the writer actually talked to someone at Walker Buerge Ford. The WB Ford rep said the way it worked at their dealership was that a customer would select any Mustang on their lot to be sent to Saleen for conversion. I mention all of that because my car was one of those WB Mustangs.

Here are my questions: because my car was already built, and for sale as a TuTone GT (not part of a special order being sent right to Saleen), would Saleen have removed the GT hood decal and repainted the hood, or would they have left the decal as is? I've seen only 1 GT Saleen with the hood decal still attached, but I read that the option to delete it wasn't available until 1986. What would Saleen have done?

Would Saleen have repainted the lower TuTone red so it matched the rest of the vehicle? Ive never seen or heard of a TuTone Saleen, so I assume they did, but I want to be sure. I assume the original owner would have had to pay for that repaint, so it seems kinda silly for him/her to select this particular car for conversion...why not pick an LX or a GT without the lower TuTone paint?

This car also has cruise control, and I think it's pretty funny that it had the only two options Saleen specifically asked for cars not to have. Again, I just wonder why the original owner selected this car?

If any of you Fox Saleen Guru's have any insight I would really appreciate it. I want to restore this car as closely as I can to what it looked like when it left Saleen.

Thanks!

[Dave]

Originally Posted by TopGear85

Recently someone posted a link to an old magazine article that talked about the Saleen Dealership network and how it was working across the country. The writer of the article (published back in 1985) asked random Ford dealerships across the country about ordering a Saleen (because Saleen boasted about being nation wide). Most of the dealerships in middle and eastern America hadn't heard of Saleen at that time, but the writer actually talked to someone at Walker Buerge Ford. The WB Ford rep said the way it worked at their dealership was that a customer would select any Mustang on their lot to be sent to Saleen for conversion. I mention all of that because my car was one of those WB Mustangs.

Attached: Side article from Autoweek. August 5, 1985

[Brokn Nx]

I think if you walked into any dealership in America today you'd probably get the same response from the sales team. Sales guys have a hard time knowing the current corporate lineup, let alone specialty builders lineup.

I'd start with the impossible to find parts and see whats under the paint. What color is the paint on and underneath the spats on your 85? Can you tell from the paint chips if its ever been the charcoal color? If its never been charcoal, then there's your answer to the tu-tone.

[TopGear85]

Unfortunately the car has been repainted (so I have no idea what it looked like when it was new) and certain hard to find parts are missing. I have an air dam but not the spats (it's getting an 86 rear valance until I find a pair).

I'm assuming that it would have all been painted red, but I figured I would ask if anyone had heard of a tutone Saleen from back in those days. I think the car should get the GT decal, but again, I don't know for sure?

[85-0035]

My car has the GT stickers on the side and the original hood has the black and GT on the front

[TopGear85]

Awesome! Thanks for the info 85-0035, so it sounds like my car should have the hood decal, now I just need to find out about the TuTone.

Do you have any pics of your car so I can see the decals? Thanks for responding btw.

[TopGear85]

Is there anyone that might know about my TuTone dilemma? Are any of the original employees still with Saleen that I could talk to? I know it's a long shot, but if only a handful (or less) of TuTone GT's were sent for conversion, maybe someone will remember?

[85-0035]

will take a few in a few days

[Dave]

Originally Posted by TopGear85

Is there anyone that might know about my TuTone dilemma? Are any of the original employees still with Saleen that I could talk to? I know it's a long shot, but if only a handful (or less) of TuTone GT's were sent for conversion, maybe someone will remember?

Yours might be the only 1985 or 1986 Mustang GT chassis with tu-tone paint that went to Saleen for conversion. There are no current assembly line techs that were with Saleen Autosport in the mid-1980s.

Originally Posted by 85-0035

My car has the GT stickers on the side and the original hood has the black and GT on the front

Yes. The 1985 and 1986 Mustang GT based Saleen conversions retained their "GT" specific side trim. The "GT" recessed logo was filled/painted by the supplier in light grey.

I may be mistaken, but I do not believe the 1985 and 1986 rear fender, door, or front quarter panel trim were painted charcoal. I believe the charcoal color was in the composite material. (The side trim held by tape.)

The fender and quarter panel extensions (the side trim blending into the bumper covers) were painted charcoal. (These are held by posts.)

Both the front bumper cover and the rear bumper cover had their charcoal areas sprayed first. Then the areas to remain charcoal were masked before painting body color.

On a factory tu-tone car, Ford would have sprayed more (the bottom) of the front and rear covers with charcoal paint before masking.

Question is, would Saleen Autosport spray the entire bottom of the car body color? Or would they just paint the areas that would show? Those being the bottom of the doors and the rear bumper cover. The body kit would hide the tu-tone on the front bumper cover, fender and quarter panel. Body kits were painted before installation.

I would slowly start to remove paint. You said your car was repainted? If the original paint is under the repaint you may have a chance to solve your questions. If Saleen repainted the charcoal tu-tone Bright Red, you should find three layers of paint before the factory primer.

3 --> Current Red
2 --> Saleen Red
1 --> Charcoal tu-tone
0 --> Primer

Same goes if you slowly strip the hood paint. Original 1985-86 GT hood decals typically leave a ghost image on the factory paint. These decals can also pull the factory paint with them during removal. If you find ghosting or evidence that OE paint was pulled from the hood, the decal may have remained on the vehicle after conversion.

Originally Posted by TopGear85

Would Saleen have repainted the lower TuTone red so it matched the rest of the vehicle? Ive never seen or heard of a TuTone Saleen, so I assume they did, but I want to be sure. I assume the original owner would have had to pay for that repaint, so it seems kinda silly for him/her to select this particular car for conversion...why not pick an LX or a GT without the lower TuTone paint?

This car also has cruise control, and I think it's pretty funny that it had the only two options Saleen specifically asked for cars not to have. Again, I just wonder why the original owner selected this car?

If any of you Fox Saleen Guru's have any insight I would really appreciate it. I want to restore this car as closely as I can to what it looked like when it left Saleen.

Given the side article. This dealer chose to have currently stocked Mustangs converted when needed.

Something we "may" have discussed offline, but we will review. 1985 was not a smooth production year for Mustang. There were production stops for the 5-liter. Some were convertible related, some were not. There was also a shipping strike by summer 1985. Leaving vehicles on trains, in depots and at the factory. Ordering, buying and taking delivery of a 1985 5-liter Mustang could be a task if the timing was wrong.

The plus side to using a "dealer stocked" unit, vehicle existed and could provide a faster customer delivery.

If you have not. Ask Saleen if they have a paper build sheet for your car. (Not an LOA.)

[TopGear85]

Cool, thank you.

[TopGear85]

Thanks for the response Dave, I appreciate your input. I will call saleen and see if they have the build sheet and if so, maybe that will give me some answers? So far, my car is the only TuTone car I've heard of that got the Saleen treatment, which is why I thought if I could find someone that worked there to talk to, maybe they would remember it (I'm sure it was a pita compared to all the other cars). The TuTone, cruise, and GT chassis are what attracted me to this car in the first place, it just sounded a bit out of the ordinary...especially considering all the Saleen ordering info specifically asks not to send TuTone, cruise control cars for conversion.

Any idea why GT cars cost extra? What did they have to do that was different from the LX's? Was it hood decal related, or maybe the fog light bumper cover?

I just want to do right by this car and put it back to the condition it was in when it left Saleen back in 85.

[Dave]

There may have been three to five 1985 Saleen Mustangs in 2R (Bright Red) based on a Mustang GT.

It appears you have the only 1985 Saleen Mustang that Walker Burge Ford sold. It would then appear the article was written after they delivered your car.

Given your vehicle is not listed as a side stripe delete car, my opinion is Saleen repainted the charcoal tu-tone.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by TopGear85

Any idea why GT cars cost extra? What did they have to do that was different from the LX's? Was it hood decal related, or maybe the fog light bumper cover?

For 1985, my thought is refinishing the hatchback. Filling OE wing mount holes and repainting added cost. In 1985 the Mustang LX hatchback did not have a wing and made for an easy install of the Saleen part.

[85-0035]

Sorry my car doesn't have the GT sticker on side but still have the GT on side grey molding

[FoxChassis]

Mike, have you ordered a deluxe Marti report for 85-0073, or have you found the (Ford) build sheet? Not sure if this car was dealer stock, or retail, or fleet, etc. but a deluxe Marti report and or the (Ford) build sheet would tell you. All I know so far is that it was not a special order, per the two digit DSO, as opposed to a special order that would have a six-digit DSO.

[FoxChassis]

Not sure how many total Saleens made on the GT chassis in 1985 but I have data on four of them so far. Here are the serial numbers and color(s):

85-0019 1C (Black)
85-0035 2A (Medium Canyon Red Metallic)
85-0070 9L (Oxford White)
85-0073 2R XP (Bright Red w/ Lower Charcoal)

[TopGear85]

Foxchassis, the car was ordered as dealer stock according to the Marti Report. Unfortunately I couldn't find a build sheet in the car...and I looked everywhere. According to my LOA from Saleen, my car is 1 of 7 GT's Saleen converted in 1985.

[Dave]

This gives an idea of how 85-0073 would have look before conversion.

[TopGear85]

That's a beautiful GT. I wonder how #73 would look if I left it just like that GT but added the Saleen ground effects and graphics? It would definitely be different, but I assume people would think its a clone.

Looking at that car, to convert #73 Saleen had to: paint the lower TuTone, sail panels, and maybe the hood (if they removed the decal). They also had to remove the GT spoiler and front clip to put on their spoiler and the LX front end (I still have the fog light switch installed in the interior).

That's a ton of work for one car, and a lot more than they're used to. I bet the workers weren't very happy about all that. It had to cost the original owner at least $500-1000 more than a regular Mustang with all that extra work.

[Dave]

I may be mistaken, but I believe the 1985-86 Mustang LX and GT front covers are dimensionally the same. The differences are the finished holes for fog lights.

I think if we flip through enough photos of the 1986 Saleen race cars, we will see a GT front bumper cover under the 1986 style ground effect.

[TopGear85]

Originally Posted by Dave

There may have been three to five 1985 Saleen Mustangs in 2R (Bright Red) based on a Mustang GT.

It appears you have the only 1985 Saleen Mustang that Walker Burge Ford sold. It would then appear the article was written after they delivered your car.

Given your vehicle is not listed as a side stripe delete car, my opinion is Saleen repainted the charcoal tu-tone.

Thanks for all your responses Dave, I appreciate the help. I am curious how you found out that my car was the only Saleen sold from WB Ford in 85?

Thanks again!

[Dave]

Originally Posted by TopGear85

Thanks for all your responses Dave, I appreciate the help. I am curious how you found out that my car was the only Saleen sold from WB Ford in 85?

Thanks again!

Greg Wackett has a vintage list of 1985 Saleen Mustangs and what dealers they were shipped to.

[TopGear85]

Wow, that's a cool piece of Saleen history. That Greg W. has an amazing Saleen literature collection doesnt he? For me the research is almost as much fun as the driving (I also love to hunt for hard to find parts).

Thanks again. You always take the time to answer my strange fox Saleen questions and I appreciate it.

[TopGear85]

I sent an email to the lady that handles the LOA's. Hopefully she will have some more info for me, or be able to point me in the right direction. Fingers crossed.