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1999-2004 Saleen Mustang For the SN-95 New Edge platform. Be sure to specify year, model and equipment if asking for help. |
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Extreme Discussion
I had two (different places) very recommended and knowledgeable mechanics look/listen to it yesterday and wasn't thrilled with the results. They both say it is more than likely a wrist pin problem and thinks more than one is bad. $3k-6k cost. Problem is they can't be 100% certain until the engine is apart. That seems to be the consensus. I have had it looked at by a Performance shop that works on nothing but modular mustangs, Saleen of Foley, AL, and the last two local guys. Not too happy with my "Extreme" money pit.
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#2
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Not sure who moved this here but I guess we will use this for now for all extreme discussions?
Those that have swapped clutches and such what clutch cable did you go with if changed? I put a spec stage 2+ in my car with a resurfaced stock mcleod flywheel. Also a fiore aluminum quadrant and firewall adjuster. I kept the stock cable because it only had 10k on it, but my pedal at times vibrates and isn't the smoothest to push in. I here everyone on svtperformance saying don't buy aftermarket cables get a oem ford cable. But some say to use an adjustable so you have adjustment under car and at firewall. Im just not sure if there is a oem ford brand cable that is adjustable or do you have to go aftermarket for adjustable cable? |
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#4
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The OEM Ford cable is the best. No, there's not an adjustable OEM version.
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#5
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I started it a few days ago and just quoted you so you would get an email showing this thread (assuming you had that set up). I meant to answer the other thread and tell you guys, but haven't had the chance to get on.
I think the clutch needs to be replaced in my car as well. I have 28kmi on it. It sometimes makes a slight sqeaking noise when I engage. It's hard to describe but my shifts are wierd. One day it will be decently smooth with a little bump into each gear then it will start getting harder and harder to change gears while driving. Sometimes it will grind trying to get it into reverse with my clutch to the floor! I have picked out a Spec Super Twin as a replacement. I imagine I will replace the clutch cable as well but not sure about the OEM or adjustable difference. Quote:
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#6
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Well as I understand these engines are matched by VIN, so to keep as much "originality" as possible I will probably have the pistons replaced, depending on what/if there is any engine damage or not. I would like to keep the heads and not risk them being damaged if it does blow. I am looking to buy a Toyota Tacoma as my daily driver. Hopefully I can find one I want before I hit 30k miles...that's the plan anyways.
I can tell you the motor is coming out. I am sick of that pinging noise. I am not sure as to whether or not I am going to remove/disassemble and take it to a machine shop that I already have picked out or take it to the mechanic I have picked out. I know that the mechanic is going to reassemble, just not sure if I know what I am getting into taking it apart. I am very curious about working on the car. I want to. I have bought and read a couple of books on disassembly/reassembly of the 4.6/5.4 modular engine, but theory is always better than actual. So, that is the only debate in my mind. I could always put in a stroker kit, port the heads and put a 75mm TB on there. I'm sure that would net me quite a bit of HP. But I haven't decided on staying 4.6 or stroking to 5.0. Because if there is bore damage I may have the option to increase the bore size without stroking. Can anyone tell me if it is worth the dollars to put headers on? My exhaust guy says no. He told me he could just cut the cats off, put straight pipe from the exhaust manifold to the pipes where he cut off the cats. Said it would net me the same HP gains from putting on headers and only cost $150. I know headers are much nicer looking so I may go that route anyways. Quote:
Last edited by Jaayyrod; 03-12-2012 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Didn't answer initial question... |
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I feel your pain as I had some issues with my SC. I have read a lot about these cars making noise, but I was to understand it wasn't really no more than piston slap and not a "real" issue to be concerned with. Now that I have said that, these engines can't be bored a whole lot and I don't believe a stroker kit is going to devalue the car. Not only that, short of sleeving the block, you are not gonna get 5.0 out of the engine with out a stroker kit. The heads have been cleaned up already by Saleen, but there might still be some room for improvement. Nice thing is, it will look stock from the outside. Now the headers are another story, I remember reading something in the past where Saleen said that the gains were negligible. With a stroke and bore, maybe headers would offer more. No matter which way you go, there is gonna be a lot of cash laid out.
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#8
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I HOPE the engine doesn't have to be bored out! I would like to just stroke it and be done with it. But only way to know is when the machine shop gets their hands on the engine to see if there is any damage.
I have already started a list of parts on Excel. Up to $8,615 so far...not including labor or paint. I expect $15k-$18k when all is said and done. It will be a transformation that is for sure! It also won't be overnight, unfortunately. I have to spent cash to buy a daily driver first. Then save, save, save! Hopefully it will take less than a year to have everything done. But who knows what life has to throw at me. Quote:
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#9
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As far as the boring and striking I would have to think your probably going to need to bore it if your gonna stroke it. What's the chances that the bores are mint with the way these pistons are clanging around? Haha. Specially if it's an actual problem like your mechanics say with wrist pins or something. Plus don't know how many shops would be ok with replacing whole bottom end and stroking without creating a nice fresh bore? I could be wrong though I am far from an expert, maybe not even a novice!;-) |
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Believe me I have my frustrations about it!!
But nothing can be done now. Just have to move forward and plan on it being better. You very well could be spot on about the boring and stroking. It is going to be a months long process even when I get the cash together to get started on it. So even knowing for sure what I need to buy as far as internals is still a mystery. I have been looking around at kits just to have an idea of what I'd like to put into it. But there is no telling of what kind of options I will have. At least I have no idea as I am a noob to this stuff too. But I am very interested and read something everyday. I am trying to get the intelligence to work on it, but the actual know-how comes from practice...which is something I lack tremendously. Bout to test it out this weekend. I ordered some Hotchkis C/C plates and the install looks pretty straight forward, but I know if something says 2hrs it's going to take me longer. I like to take it slow and make sure I get the job done right. Quote:
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#11
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Forgot to mention this. Everyone says oem ford cable but which one. Cobras in 03 04 don't use same as gt I was told. So I would imagine the one for our extremes would b same as 03 04 cobra with 6 speed? Anyone actually order one and replace? Thanks guys
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#12
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Cobra similarities
Considering our vehicles are very similar to the 03-04 Cobras, did the rear end get changed to 31 spline locker/axles? Or is it the GT stock 28 spline w/ factory diff lock?
Does anyone know the Torque rating for the 28's with the factory diff. locker? Also, considering that most say we have 3.08 gears I will most likely be changing to 3.55 or 3.73s and while I'm there I may as well upgrade to stronger axles. Is there anyway to tell about the gearing? |
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I know I have chimed in before on some of the stuff being talked about but I have the exact car. Just hit 27k miles. This is what I have done so far. Think I might be done now.
My rearend came apart at 19k miles cause Saleen never used lock tight on the standard bolts that held the carrier to the ring gear. Everything was trashed. I put in a Eaton Trutrac locker cause the "max grip" has been discountiued. As far asi found it was only used in Saleens and vipers. Had to change the axles as well cause all Saleens with the max grip have different length axles. This is to accommodate the larger carrier. My car came with Strange 31 spline. Went with ford Racing and 3.73. Would have ordered 3.55 but my window sticker said I had them. Shortly after that I got a great deal on a IRS out of an 04 cobra with 12k miles. Swapped my carrier and gears right in and bolted it I the car after installing all the Maxium Motorsports bushings for it. I have loved it since. I dont really drag race being a vert and extra heavy. Rides much better. Switched the stock Hurst shifter to a Steeda tri ax. More noise but shorter throw. Also installed an adjustable clutch cable and quadrant setup. The cable was not as good as the oem. Still works fine so far. As for engine stuff internals all stock. Never opened the engine. I have a "diesel" sounding idle. Which 15k miles ago I was told the motor was having problems. Did some researcher and found it was normal for extremes. Left it alone. Added 75mm BBK throttle body, mosaleen idler, 2.8 pulley,90mm idler pulley, replaced my stock belt tensionior twice. ( not sure why it makes noise), excell yellow coil packs, chicane inter cooler,lfp heat exchanger,colder NGK iridium spark plugs, steel braided cooler lines, this past weekend I installed BBK ceramic shorty headers and a magnaflow off road xpipe. My tuner said those items were hold me back big time. Those stock manifolds are so small compaired to the headers. Having it retuned next Monday so I will know how much power I gained from them. I can tell off the bat it's a big difference in throttle response. I drive my car hard and have yet to have any engine issues. Not saying it won't happen but you may be over reacting. I have lots of info and articles on these cars. Any questions let me know. I would drive it like you want and worry later. Will post my dyno numbers next week.
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2002 S281-E 039 Black convertible |
#14
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Your sticker said 3.55's but what did it actually have? What clutch cable did you go with and did you order one for a 03 04 cobra? Do you still have the stock clutch? And was the exhaust ordered like the car was an 02 gt? Any fitment issues bolting up to the rest of the stock exhaust? How about clearance around the bigger 6 speed tranny? How many pounds of boost are you pushing with those pulleys and what were your power numbers before the exhaust. Thanks for the info and good luck at the dyno. |
#15
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They used the wrong bolts completely. They used standard grade 8 bolts with no lock tight. The correct bolts are case hardened bolts that come with lock tight already. My car came with 3.08. I would have gone to 3.55 if I knew that prior to ordering. With the 3.73s I have a hard time hooking them up on street tires. The clutch cable I went with was for a standard gt. They hook up the same way. I have the standard clutch saleen installed. The exhaust is the same as the gt. in fact it's the standard manifolds and catted xpipe from ford. The trans is only longer the the T45 ford put in. Everything fits fine. I'm not sure how much boost I'm hitting cause it maxes out the gauge and quickly. I hit 404rwhp on a mustang dyno jet dyno before the exhaust. Hoping to hit 450 now. We will see.
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2002 S281-E 039 Black convertible |
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I'm glad you told us about your rear end. Ours are prolly ticking time bombs with some mods. Plus that answers my question about the axles.
Since you put a 2.8 pulley on there I'd imagine you are pushing close to15-16lbs. With the stock 4" the Extremes should be pushing 8-10, which is what I would get when I did drive hard. What brand clutch is in there? Do we have a 10 or 26 spline input shaft? Wonder why Saleen changed so much but left on the stock manifolds? What criteria should be looked at when choosing headers? And to address a previous post about the dieseling noise your car makes, mine isn't just merely a light clicking. It's a loud, annoying (and embarrassing) metallic tapping that definitely doesn't sound right. I'll try to get you guys a sound byte or vid clip up tomorrow. Quote:
Last edited by Jaayyrod; 03-15-2012 at 11:05 PM. |
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Since the install, the clutch engages weird since the Ford dealership adjusted the clutch. I just want to make sure the clutch cable doesn't snap again and I still need some education on how to properly adjust it. Thanks |
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#19
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Yes you have change the exhaust to cobra one. The pinion flange and both ebrake cables. The driveshaft will work. The rest just bolts right in.
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2002 S281-E 039 Black convertible |
#20
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Where you able to transition the cobra exhaust over the axle to the saleen center exhaust? Do you have any pics of the install? Thank you
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#21
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Momo Shift knob
Does anyone else have a problem with their shift knob being loose?
I can tighten it up and it will be loose after 50 miles. |
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do you have the momo unit? with the screws? i bought a carbon fiber one and i took that thing off after i realized how easy it was to become loose
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#23
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Yes, it is the carbon fiber momo with the screws. Did it not come on the car stock? It is a pain. If it's not the stock shift knob could someone up load theirs that came with the 02-04 Extreme plz. I'd rather have one that didn't come loose every time I drive the car.
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#24
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Mine come loose on my MGW shifter also. I used red Loctite. Seems to be holding up now.
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I had an exhaust shop connect my tailpipe section to the cobra cat back. Cost all off 110 bucks. Works perfectly.
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2002 S281-E 039 Black convertible |
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Extreme beginner question, what about oil? I've spoken with one owner, 5-50 and seems it isn't available in many brands.
What are all of y'all using? I'm not planning to drive mine a lot but would like to do an oil change.
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Johnny '00 Saleen SC Spdstr, Extreme Rainbow #387 '02 Saleen Extreme Coupe, Extreme Rainbow #019 '03 Saleen SA-20 Anniversary Speedster #03 |
#27
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In the owners manual and a sticker on the hood it says to use 10w30 in the extremes. Since they built the motor I tend to wanna follow their suggestion. Any other motor I used the Ford recommend 5w20. Don't see a benefit in switching it up. Just my opinion.
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2002 S281-E 039 Black convertible |
#28
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Hey Jaayrod what ever happen with your motor? Did you ever get it rebuilt? Ever check out you rear axle?
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2002 S281-E 039 Black convertible |
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The sticker under the hood from Saleen (the one directly above the battery on mine) says 5-30 for the first 500 miles, then 5-50 thereafter. Just Looked at the Saleen owners manual and it appears as though it's a supplement geared toward the NA and S281 SC applications, rather than the Extreme. Looks like they left the OG Mustang oil cap on, which states 5-20 and makes things thoroughly confusing....lol
Last edited by mills281e; 08-02-2012 at 12:36 AM. |
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My extreme manual says to use 10w30 as well as the engine sticker. Ford hasn't used 10w30 motor oil since the old 5.0L.
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2002 S281-E 039 Black convertible |
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Nope, haven't had the funds. I was medevac from Afghan in Jan2011 and have been in a medical program up until 26 July. Not starting back a civilian job til the first of this year and building a house. My car still has the ticking noise, but it doesn't have any performance problems. I still believe something is wrong though. I think I want to do an IRS swap as well. I'm not going to be dragging a vert on the weekends, so if there is 3.08s in the rear I'm okay with it. I still plan pulling the engine when I get time. My clutch is feeling weak as well. Does anyone know the stock replacement?
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#32
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If you go to the IRS, you might have a small issue with your 10" wheels clearing a bolt or something. I researched this a couple years back and remembered something had to be change to allow the stock 10" Saleen wheels to fit. I believe the Saleen Cobra used 9" wheels.
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#33
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That's why I am confused because of the cap saying 5-20 and people saying 5-50.
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Johnny '00 Saleen SC Spdstr, Extreme Rainbow #387 '02 Saleen Extreme Coupe, Extreme Rainbow #019 '03 Saleen SA-20 Anniversary Speedster #03 |
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#35
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I think there is an issue with the IRS and wide tire sidewall rubbing on the mounting bolts. Maximum Motorsports sells a set of low profile head bolts to address this problem.
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/st...ath=514_88_202 |
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That was it... txs
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#37
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I used those bolts in mine. Had no problems with mine. As for the oil cap. All the modular engines take 5w20 that's why the caps state that. Not sure why saleen specifies thicker oil for the extreme motors? Maybe there tolerances aren't as good as Ford??
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2002 S281-E 039 Black convertible |
#38
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My cap says 5W-20 but my books says 5W-30 for the first 500mile break-in period then 5W-30 there after. I use Mobile 1 5W-20 Pure Synthetic.
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#39
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Clutch
Just wondering if anyone knows the stock clutch replacement? Same one the 03-04 Cobra uses maybe? That seems right since the crank and transmission are the same, but not sure about the bolt patterns.
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#40
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bump. Good Gen 1 Extreme chat in this thread.
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89-122 95-104 R code 03-15 E |
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Heads
Looking at replacing my heads on my 2002 extreme, what have ya'll used as replacements and with what results?
#13 500hp 500tq Trying to get work done on my car over here in Italy.....kind of a pain! Thanks
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2002 Saleen Extreme #13 |
#42
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I believe TFS is like the only replacement head. There has been mixed results on these heads on the 281, but, from what I have read, the larger-bored (298-302 CID) engines respond well to them as the valves are unshrouded a bit more due to the larger bore.
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#43
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Short block
Looks like I need a new short block for my extreme. Any suggestions? Will be getting the original fixed when I get stationed back in the states.
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2002 Saleen Extreme #13 |
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New K&N air filter and wrap
Just got my new K&N filter today. 4inch inlet x 6 inches. Part# RC-4550 with wrap part # RF-1023DR. Exact filter as original (as far as I know)...I assume it was factory as it was pretty dirty with my 29K mi car. Anyway, I went with a new one because the original was pretty dirty and previous owner had way too much oil on it I am guessing from a "recharge." The car runs great just decided to check out filter and glad I did. I figured since I was going to spring for a new filter, I would try their new filter wrap so that I can just clean this thing instead of the filter when need be. I also cleaned air meter as well with the MA sensor cleaner spray stuff and plugged things right up again. I will follow up with this tomorrow after a good warm up and turn or two around the block to see if this wrap is too restrictive and detail how the car runs with new filter and mass air meter cleaning.
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Jake 95 Mustang GT. 5.0 Convertible (Sold) 02-11E Saleen Convertible |
#45
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K&N Air filter and mass air cleaning.
Started the car up and let it idle for about 7/8 minutes or so... and then I took it out slow and did a freeway run. Throttle response was a lot quicker through the gears. From stop...it seems like I can work the clutch more accurately/efficiently because the engine feels like it is getting proper amounts of air/fuel even at very low RPM. It doesn't feel like it wants to die as much as before at very low RPM. From 2nd gear I can now get the car to go pretty slow without bogging out. In high gear and high RPM, I can let off the gas and I don't get as much of an abrupt decrease in power as before...instead the engine winds down much more smoothly. Idles/runs like a top as before, but car feels a lot healthier with new filter and air meter cleaning. Even with the wrap, the car feels happier, so I don't think there is any interference with the wrap. All in all...a new filter is not a bad thing especially for cars as old as some of these are, despite a million mile guarantee of K&N's. Overall, this was worth my time and energy.
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Jake 95 Mustang GT. 5.0 Convertible (Sold) 02-11E Saleen Convertible |
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great info thanks for posting!
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#47
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3.27 to 3.73 Speedo other advice
Hey all,
Any E owners or for that matter SC car owners that have experiences they would like to share regarding a gear swap. I am wanting to go from a 3.27 to a 3.73. I have the 6 Speed of course. Do you think this gear is too low with an SC (5lbs max boost as of now)? When you do a gear swap, how off does the Speedo become? How did you recal? I am thinking of going this route first before a Pulley swap from a 4" to a 3" But if I am happy with the 3.73's then maybe I can avoid the Pulley and retune. Any advise would be appreciated.
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Jake 95 Mustang GT. 5.0 Convertible (Sold) 02-11E Saleen Convertible |
#48
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I have 3.73 and love it in my extreme. you can just get a sct hand held tuner and flash your car for the tune to calibrate it.
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#49
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3.27 to 3.73 Speedo other advice
Right on thank you for that. Yes, now it's just a matter of finding someone to do it. So the SCT scanner will be able to detect/recognize the saleen powerflash tune? If so that is good to know. I appreciate the advice.
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Jake 95 Mustang GT. 5.0 Convertible (Sold) 02-11E Saleen Convertible |
#50
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you should be able to just flash over the saleen tune with the tuner just dont do any of the preloaded sct tune stuff or you will have the wrong tune. I would get a dyno tune asap regardless though. the stock tunes in these cars are super safe.
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