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-   -   JDM Engineering Saleen truck and Upgrade kit info!! (https://saleenforums.soec.org/showthread.php?t=4126)

JimIII@JDM 12-05-2008 04:12 PM

JDM Engineering Saleen truck and Upgrade kit info!!
 
In the beginning for 2007 JDM Engineering was approached by Saleen with some problems they were having with their production S331 pick up trucks. These issues included power output, transmission shifting, and overall drive-ability. We had never seen one of these trucks before so we told them we would have to see one in person in order to help. Saleen responded by sending us a brand new 2007 S331 truck to play with! Bumper # 04 in a brilliant White with black stripes on the side. This truck was probably the most gorgeous F-150 we had ever seen!

We were very excited to have the truck at our disposal. We actually had it for two days and headed down to Orlando Florida with it for the Fun Ford weekend spring break shoot out. On our way down we noticed the problems Saleen was having. They all seemed to be tuning related. As we data logged the truck we found many things that we didn’t like. A lot of the things we didn’t like were in the transmission functions. Mainly torque converter lock up would kick out of lock up at a steady speed which would make the truck down shift anytime you breathed on the throttle. This became very annoying almost enough to make us want to put a tune in it before the trip was over! We ended up holding off on the tune however as we wanted to see what it did at the track and on the dyno.

We made it down to Orlando in just enough time to make the Muscle Mustangs magazine hooters party/ burn out contest. Here we met Carlos Duran and Ned Shortsleeve from Saleen Speedlab for the first time. So we were approached by Muscle Mustangs Editor Evan Smith. He asked us to do a burn out for the magazine we looked to Carlos and Ned, they gave us the nod, and it was on! We were ready strike the hides loose and put on a smoke show. So we back the truck into the burn out pit and power brake it, NOTHING. The tires wouldn’t even break loose foot braking it! Possibly the most embarrassing moment you could ever have. We eventually got it to spin the tires for some pictures with a few guys holding up the back bumper and pouring some beer under the tires. It still struggled the whole time and didn’t like the attempted burn out. We stuck our tails between our legs and went to our hotel to get ready for the race that weekend.

At the track we pulled in and met another guy who already had an S331 also, in white too! We pitted next to him and hung out the whole weekend. He had claimed to run a 14.5 ľ mile time with his truck back home in Massachusetts in good air. All the both us could muster was some 15.0 ľ mile times in stock trim in Florida spring weather. We packed up for the weekend and headed home to New Jersey.

When we got back home we strapped the truck down on the dyno. We made a few pulls and saw what it was making at the tires, a very lack luster 323 RWHP and 352 TQ. We saw the air fuel curve and timing levels and knew we could only slightly improve on the power but there was some torque to gain. The mass air meter was pegged stock so it limited us to how much power we could make. With a few swift strokes of the keyboard my father had the truck finely tuned in a matter of hours. We pumped out 337 RWHP and 390 TQ giving us 15 HP and nearly 40 TQ gain from just a computer tune!

After we were happy with the power numbers, my father took the truck out on the streets for a few weeks spending countless hours each day to get the shift points perfect and create better drive-ability. We were able to also pick up some fuel economy with the new tuning. We presented Saleen with our finds and gave them a copy of our tune to use as a reflash upgrade for their trucks. They actually used this reflash for customers who would call in and complain about their trucks, and even took most of the tuning and used it in the production of the rest of the 07 and 08 trucks.

After the initial tuning was done we went ahead and designed some upgrade parts. Including our power package, 4.56 gears, Traction bars, Electric fan kit, and custom exhaust. We were able to get the truck up to 425 HP at the tires with everything installed. We ended up racing the truck at 10 more events and put over 25,000 miles on it! After the race season was over we headed back to Michigan with the truck to show Saleen what we had done. Guys there were taking turns driving it, beating the pants off of it! We even got in trouble for doing a burn out in the parking lot, security was all over us! The plant managers and everyone who drove it loved it. They could honestly not believe it was the same truck! They ordered 5 of our upgrade kits for their personal trucks that same day! We also struck a deal with Carlos the head of aftermarket parts at the time to purchase 20 kits from us. The only thing was Saleen wanted us to exclusively sell the kit through us and them. In doing so we had to keep our price the same as theirs. This is part of the reason the upgrade cost so much.

Now our upgrade kit was welcomed by Saleen with such open arms because it was CARB legal. You can run our kit in any of the 50 states and pass all emissions laws. We found the air box and inlet tube from Roush’s production F-150’s. We knew the mass air housing on that intake box was large enough for the stock sensor to hold over 500 HP. So we went with their induction box and inlet tube. We then made a throttle body adapter out of billet aluminum to fit this new air kit on the truck. We ran into availability problems with the billet elbows and they were very expensive so we switched over to the plastic Ford inlet elbows. We used these for a few months while we had new cast elbows made which we now use today. Either one of these 3 parts works the same and provide the same power out put and easy fitment.

We had expected to give Saleen the truck back that day we went back to Michigan. Saleen was so happy with our progress and the exposure they got from us racing the truck the whole year they let us keep it for another race season. So we took it to the max! We turned up the tune, added some boost (13 psi) , made a custom twin pump fuel system and tested it out at the trrack on our annual JDM day just before the track closed for the winter. The truck ran its best time ever of 12.5 @ 110 mph! This was and is to date the world’s fastest ľ mile pass in a S331/HD truck! We rested the truck over the winter, and drove it daily. After the winter was over we headed back down to Florida for the Fun Ford weekend spring break event, where it all started with this truck!

We showed up again Friday just in time for the Muscle Mustang party and burn out contest. Evan again knowing that the truck was no where near the slug we attempted a burn out with the year previous, had us back the truck in for the first burn out of the night. As I rolled into the burn out pit I heard some guys laugh and say “ hey that’s the truck from last year that would barely spin the tires” I thought, just you wait and see guys! So I held the brake and gave her some throttle and within seconds it looked like John Force had just done a burn out in his Mustang Funny car! The crowd went nuts, the magazine guys loved it getting tons of pictures. Most of all we had proved to the Florida crowd that night that this truck was nothing to mess with! http://teamjdmvideo.vidiac.com/recen...55007dd93e.htm

So we went on with the rest of the weekend and actually ended up winning the truck class event with it! In fact we went on to win the first 3 events in a row! This put us in the points lead! We had to miss the 4<SUP>th</SUP> event due to scheduling conflict with the NMRA races we run so we had to tighten the reigns a bit. We ended up winning two out of the last five races and with one race left we secured the points championship for the 2008 Fun Ford weekend Tough truck championship!!! Our Saleen S331 and Driver Paul Gamino became world champs! http://teamjdmvideo.vidiac.com/recen...3e01726911.htm

What im trying to show you guys here is that our truck is really something else. We now have over 60 K miles on the truck with hundreds of ľ mile passes logged. We tow my speed lab race car to every event with it, I drive it daily and beat the pants off of it any chance I get. It sees just as bad if not more of a work load than anyone can put on it. We have brought the power level up over 150 HP to the tires and have been able to successfully make it the worlds fastest, and quickest Saleen truck with out hurting the motor or any tricks up our sleeves. These are all parts that anyone can install and run.

We have come under some criticism lately as to the price of our upgrade package, I just want everyone to know that the price was held in honor to Saleen for as long as it did. We are now changing our relationship status with them and we can change the price ourselves. I’m going to investigate and see what we can offer as a better price to the public. But our kit is more expensive because it comes with some very high dollar parts. We even took the initiative to create instructions on DVD so you can sit and watch the installation before you attempt yours! The kit is proven and no one can offer as much advice and or experience with these trucks as we can. There is no other proven package available like ours and it can’t be compared simply on price alone.

Here is a full list of parts included in the JDM upgrade kit:

SCT Xcalibrator 2 programmer with custom JDM tune
3.20” supercharger pulley (8-9 psi)
Gates Belt
Air intake box
Air inlet tube
Inlet elbow
Power steering reservoir relocation bracket
Intercooler reservoir relocation bracket
Coolant hose and fitting
DVD instructions

This kit will add 80 HP and 100 ft/lbs of torque. Fuel economy will also increase for normal driving.

Here is a few pics of the kit

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...aac381c4be.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...292bfa629b.jpg

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...16c450e565.jpg

Here is a cool pic of the truck and some cool video!!

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...cd290c1d13.jpg

Video links...

http://ywnv.vidiac.com/video/18fca38...94012d4af4.htm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS18tHiDkZA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkjnVz93sXI

dentguy 12-05-2008 05:22 PM

so did you have a fix for the electric fans ? because i sure would've liked to have keep ed mine and not the mech fan they replaced it with. I luved the sound they made kinda sounded like a jet turbine under the hood. when I pulled up somewhere people would turn and look with a ? mark on there face and ask what kinda motor you have under there. I miss those fans not to mention the throttle response and the extra horsepower.I'm glad you came on here and explained the difference about the kit I feel better about my purchase and now I understand the diff in price. and I hope you continue to come on here and help us squeeze all the power out of our trucks we possibly can. thanks

SaleenKS 12-05-2008 05:41 PM

Thats a professional looking kit! Does it void warranty or is Saleen OK with it?

Dave 12-05-2008 06:21 PM

This was a good read. Thanks for sharing Jim-The-3rd.

JimIII@JDM 12-05-2008 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dentguy (Post 12073)
so did you have a fix for the electric fans ? because i sure would've liked to have keep ed mine and not the mech fan they replaced it with. I luved the sound they made kinda sounded like a jet turbine under the hood. when I pulled up somewhere people would turn and look with a ? mark on there face and ask what kinda motor you have under there. I miss those fans not to mention the throttle response and the extra horsepower.I'm glad you came on here and explained the difference about the kit I feel better about my purchase and now I understand the diff in price. and I hope you continue to come on here and help us squeeze all the power out of our trucks we possibly can. thanks


Besides the fact it sounds like an tornado when its operating the saleen electric fan isnt all that great. Ours went twice with in 3 months (winter months mind you) Its just purely cheap parts. We use an all factory ford fan kit that we modify and make fit for the newer F-150 body. We also include a 170 thermostat, 185* block sensor, full wiring harness, relays and circuit breakers. Its really nice, but also its not cheap right now. They are $799 and that is because we are making the harnesses in house and on a low quantity. So the labor shoots the cost up. If i had the harnesses made in bulk i could bring them down about $150. they look just like our Lightning electric fan kits here...http://www.teamjdm.com/shop/product_...products_id=25

The saleen fan's were so bad they stopped putting them on trucks, we highly recommend that to them when they first presented us with that problem. To cut cost and because the factory fan wont leave you stranded on the side of the road. So they made an adapter ring to work with the stock fan and the blower kit on the truck. If you get a F150 blower from saleen for your regular Ford pick up it comes with a fan, shroud, and adapter ring. They used to come with the same fans they installed on most of the 07 S331's

The cooling benifit and rotating mass loss from our electric fan will add about 10-15 HP plus increase fuel mpg's...definatley a good buy, everyone we've sold i here nothing but great things about

dentguy 12-05-2008 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimIII@JDM (Post 12082)
Besides the fact it sounds like an tornado when its operating the saleen electric fan isnt all that great. Ours went twice with in 3 months (winter months mind you) Its just purely cheap parts. We use an all factory ford fan kit that we modify and make fit for the newer F-150 body. We also include a 170 thermostat, 185* block sensor, full wiring harness, relays and circuit breakers. Its really nice, but also its not cheap right now. They are $799 and that is because we are making the harnesses in house and on a low quantity. So the labor shoots the cost up. If i had the harnesses made in bulk i could bring them down about $150. they look just like our Lightning electric fan kits here...http://www.teamjdm.com/shop/product_...products_id=25

The saleen fan's were so bad they stopped putting them on trucks, we highly recommend that to them when they first presented us with that problem. To cut cost and because the factory fan wont leave you stranded on the side of the road. So they made an adapter ring to work with the stock fan and the blower kit on the truck. If you get a F150 blower from saleen for your regular Ford pick up it comes with a fan, shroud, and adapter ring. They used to come with the same fans they installed on most of the 07 S331's

The cooling benifit and rotating mass loss from our electric fan will add about 10-15 HP plus increase fuel mpg's...definatley a good buy, everyone we've sold i here nothing but great things about


hmm.... more horses, better mileage, will be getting this combo.
hi everybody my name is mike and I'm addicted to horsepower

haulin S331 12-06-2008 11:41 AM

up grade kit
 
I did the upgrade this summer and it made agreat improvement in the trucks performance. You guys know your trucks , now I would like to upgrade the fans also put the roush pulley ten. on it . Have not had any problems with the fans yet. Haulin S331 #309

Light02atl 12-06-2008 01:34 PM

Good post Jim. I really like the way this setup looks stock. There are rumors that you all are swapping engines to race in this truck - and changing out pulleys when towing. I doubt that is true though. This info doesnt come from any reputable source.

I have a question....if the billet elbows were so much money, how come your kit isnt cheaper now that it doesnt use them? (not trying to knock you)

FOr those asking, this kit WILL void your warranty. You would have to take the entire kit off and return to stock tune each time you go have it serviced. This means...VERY carefully getting that "sticker" off the front of your stock pulley, and reapplying everytime. I have the install CD for this kit, it is all bolt on, so it makes swapping on and off, relatively easy.

Fastest S331 truck....that sounds like a friendly challenge....:biggrin:

JimIII@JDM 12-06-2008 02:35 PM

Hey thanks! as far as the engine rumor, why would we swap an engine just to race, okay a days labor to pull it and a days labor to install the new one... trust me if we had one of our eninges in it id be promoting it because we'd be making a ton more power and running much faster than low 13's to high 12's in competition. The fact is we are running the truck on the 23"s still we dont have any kind of slicks for the truck so if we added more power we'd have even more traction issues than we have. Whoever started that rumor obviously is jealous as to the power we have been able to make for so long and keep the stock engine together! We only change the tune and run 100 octane for racing, other wise its 100% the same as when we drive it on the street.

The sticker is actually on the pulley cover, so you dont have to peal the sticker off just the plastic cover, you can swap it 1000 times with out worrying about the sticker. Its the yellow paint dot on the factory bolts that when you break that the people who would check for warranty would see that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light02atl (Post 12106)
Good post Jim. I really like the way this setup looks stock. There are rumors that you all are swapping engines to race in this truck - and changing out pulleys when towing. I doubt that is true though. This info doesnt come from any reputable source.

I have a question....if the billet elbows were so much money, how come your kit isnt cheaper now that it doesnt use them? (not trying to knock you)

FOr those asking, this kit WILL void your warranty. You would have to take the entire kit off and return to stock tune each time you go have it serviced. This means...VERY carefully getting that "sticker" off the front of your stock pulley, and reapplying everytime. I have the install CD for this kit, it is all bolt on, so it makes swapping on and off, relatively easy.

Fastest S331 truck....that sounds like a friendly challenge....:biggrin:


Light02atl 12-06-2008 06:59 PM

Jim,

I didnt think that made sense either. (about swapping engines).

It is mine opinion that a set of 17" wheels, some slicks or DRs, battery relocation, and some 17s or 18s up front....these trucks will run low 12s. With a set of cams and a small stall with the wheel/tire combo I mentioned....mid/high 11s.

As for the fan kit, im told by Saleen, my local Saleen dealer, Troyer, and a few other S331 owners that its not the fans or fan motors that fail, its the relay(s). I ill admit though, I have no clue. Im just waiting for mine to go out :(

Again, thanks for the great post. Keep up the good work!

mantisgt 12-08-2008 11:10 AM

Jim 111

Thanks for taking the time to leave this post, personnaly I'm glad you did as I was just about to purchase the troyer kit as I couldn't justify the extra $800 for your kit over the troyer one. I agree your kit looks better and has a more quality look to it (just not $800) I await with interest your note regarding a reprice before I go ahead.

Ian (UK S331 07-222)

Richard_P_Harvey 12-08-2008 12:36 PM

Jim,

Your a heads up guy, thanks for the background as to why the high price. I for one am eagerly awaiting your new price.

Light02atl 12-08-2008 01:12 PM

I just reread this post and I am thoroughly confused.

The high price of the kit was held in honor to Saleen? So, this is a Saleen kit or a JDM Engineering kit? If its a Saleen kit, that means, no warranty issues? Saleen dictated this price...the price of an aftermarket company's kit...and now they are saying its ok to lower the price?

The kit pictured shows the billet elbow (I believe). But, the kit comes with a plastic or rubber one now? So, that high dollar billet piece is gone?..and some people paid full price...and got the plastic pieces...when you were advertising the billet pieces? :confused:

I do not see any other high dollar parts than those posted in another thread...except for some brackets?? I know they cost money, but on some kits, they are just not needed...offering savings to the customer.

Jim...by saying "The kit is proven and no one can offer as much advice and or experience with these trucks as we can. There is no other proven package available like ours and it canít be compared simply on price alone..." Is a ridiculous remark.

Im sorry, but I have to call you out on that. After speaking to you and speaking to Troyer, hands down, I know where my money is going. When I inquired about a tune, you didnt provide me with half the info that Troyer did. Additionally, I emailed and called several times to get an update for my tune...and got no response. However, as soon as I inquired about a price on something, I immediately got an email back in just a few hours.

Saying there is no other proven package on the market like yours is an outlandish remark. There are several trucks out there running the Troyer package (and several that are switching FROM your package the the Troyer package and syaing they wish they had done that in the first place) that has made at least the same amount of HP as your kit...some even more. There are three things being compared here (two are objective, one is subjective)....price, appearance, and performance. Your kit loses on the price aspect, drastically (objective). The performance aspect is the same as, or slightly worse than Troyer (objective). Appearance, being that it is subjective, is up to the owner. Some like shiny, bling pieces, others like a stock look. There is no definitive winner here when it comes to appearance.

Jim, there is no doubt that you know what you are doing with these trucks. But to make the comments that you have below, and that I quoted above, are just ridiculous. I am not being a cheerleader for any performance shop, and my intent is not to slam anyone. However, there are some things that just need to be set straight. Lastly, I didnt see much info that you offered regarding your kit or these trucks until everyone started talking about the Troyer kit. Maybe I just missed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimIII@JDM
We have come under some criticism lately as to the price of our upgrade package, I just want everyone to know that the price was held in honor to Saleen for as long as it did. We are now changing our relationship status with them and we can change the price ourselves. Iím going to investigate and see what we can offer as a better price to the public. But our kit is more expensive because it comes with some very high dollar parts. We even took the initiative to create instructions on DVD so you can sit and watch the installation before you attempt yours! The kit is proven and no one can offer as much advice and or experience with these trucks as we can. There is no other proven package available like ours and it canít be compared simply on price alone.


**note that there is no hearsay in this thread.

SaleenKS 12-08-2008 02:23 PM

If the JDM stage 1 kit would NOT void warranty I would buy it in a hot second.

Saleen Forums Admin 12-08-2008 02:26 PM

Light02atl,

Please keep in mind that we invited JimIII here to share his expertise and provide details on what JDM has to offer. Certainly there is some "marketing speak" that you'll have to interpret and filter out if you so wish.

There's no need to "call" anyone on anything -- we're not looking for a verbal arm-wrestling match here, and we won't tolerate one either.

There is no doubt a lot of R&D in stuff like this, and JDM has been cutting edge in this hobby. One might even say "bleeding edge." Sometimes that comes with a cost.

JDM also works very closely with Saleen, and certainly they have a variety of business arrangements that they have to honor (which are none of our business, by the way).

There's something to be said for race-proven performance and expertise, and JDM offers that, and they also enjoy a reputation for excellent customer service.

Proven performance does not come cheap -- and it's one thing to duplicate it, but it's another thing to innovate it.

There are other shops out there as you mention, and they are welcome to present their offerings as well.

But let's keep the discussion friendly and informative.

JimIII@JDM 12-08-2008 03:47 PM

It is the relays that go bad, i didnt really explain in my post but it is the relays that continually go bad.

Smaller and lighter wheels would have helped these trucks for sure. They are cladded in Chrome armor!!

JimIII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light02atl (Post 12119)
Jim,

I didnt think that made sense either. (about swapping engines).

It is mine opinion that a set of 17" wheels, some slicks or DRs, battery relocation, and some 17s or 18s up front....these trucks will run low 12s. With a set of cams and a small stall with the wheel/tire combo I mentioned....mid/high 11s.

As for the fan kit, im told by Saleen, my local Saleen dealer, Troyer, and a few other S331 owners that its not the fans or fan motors that fail, its the relay(s). I ill admit though, I have no clue. Im just waiting for mine to go out :(

Again, thanks for the great post. Keep up the good work!


JimIII@JDM 12-08-2008 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mantisgt (Post 12165)
Jim 111

Thanks for taking the time to leave this post, personnaly I'm glad you did as I was just about to purchase the troyer kit as I couldn't justify the extra $800 for your kit over the troyer one. I agree your kit looks better and has a more quality look to it (just not $800) I await with interest your note regarding a reprice before I go ahead.

Ian (UK S331 07-222)

Hey anytime im glad to share our findings with these trucks! Our kits new price is $1600!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard_P_Harvey (Post 12167)
Jim,

Your a heads up guy, thanks for the background as to why the high price. I for one am eagerly awaiting your new price.

Thanks, and same as above $1600 is the new price!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaleenKS (Post 12172)
If the JDM stage 1 kit would NOT void warranty I would buy it in a hot second.

IT does void warranty but honestly everything besides the pulley you can hide or they will never be able to tell you had it changed if you return back to stock before going to the dealer.

The pulley has the yellow ink dot on the bolt which you can clean and find the same ink pens, its called a mechanic's pain pen i believe.

JimIII

dentguy 12-08-2008 04:25 PM

? why would this jdm kit void the warranty if saleen asked you to create this kit so the trucks would run like their supposed to, and demanded you sell them at the price they sold them, as a saleen kit.or whatever the agreement was.

Jim D. 12-08-2008 04:42 PM

Just a point of clarification... Saleen SpeedLab even sells horsepower upgrade kits that void the warranty.

dentguy 12-08-2008 04:53 PM

but were not upgrading the power, were just trying to get to the power it has listed on the sticker thats all. were not going over the power or tq they have listed on the window sticker.

Richard_P_Harvey 12-08-2008 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dentguy (Post 12192)
but were not upgrading the power, were just trying to get to the power it has listed on the sticker thats all. were not going over the power or tq they have listed on the window sticker.

Not true, the Stage I (3.25") kit is good for an additional 60-70 RWHP and the Stage II (3.00") kit is near 100 additional RWHP. Don't hold me to those numbers but you get the point.

Jim D. 12-08-2008 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dentguy (Post 12192)
but were not upgrading the power, were just trying to get to the power it has listed on the sticker thats all. were not going over the power or tq they have listed on the window sticker.

I feel your pain, but Saleen's warranty policy is what it is.

Light02atl 12-08-2008 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saleen Forums Admin (Post 12173)
Light02atl,

Please keep in mind that we invited JimIII here to share his expertise and provide details on what JDM has to offer. Certainly there is some "marketing speak" that you'll have to interpret and filter out if you so wish.

There's no need to "call" anyone on anything -- we're not looking for a verbal arm-wrestling match here, and we won't tolerate one either.

There is no doubt a lot of R&D in stuff like this, and JDM has been cutting edge in this hobby. One might even say "bleeding edge." Sometimes that comes with a cost.

JDM also works very closely with Saleen, and certainly they have a variety of business arrangements that they have to honor (which are none of our business, by the way).

There's something to be said for race-proven performance and expertise, and JDM offers that, and they also enjoy a reputation for excellent customer service.

Proven performance does not come cheap -- and it's one thing to duplicate it, but it's another thing to innovate it.

There are other shops out there as you mention, and they are welcome to present their offerings as well.

But let's keep the discussion friendly and informative.

Ah, the light has been shined on light02. I see how things work around here now.

Mr Admin, with all due respect, my questions were poised very clearly and went, conveniently, unanswered....and are still unanswered. When someone, anyone, regardless if they were "invited" here, makes a claim that is untrue...are we not allowed to question and comment on it?

If we do not understand an issue, are we not allowed to question it?

If we have first hand experience with a performance vendor, are we not allowed to express it?

As for filtering out "market speak" - this is a VERY small community of S331s. No one will know what is what if we keep listening to "market speak" and do not question it. How do you think the billet elbow (JimIIIs BIG selling point to me) vs this now plastic piece issue started? It was because someone questioned it.

I have been nothing but friendly, and certainly informative here. However, when I have to start putting on my BS boots, I am going to question something. I am not trying to start a verbal arm wrestling match whatsoever. People with a $60,000 truck that are getting ready to drop $2000+ on performance goodies deserve to have UNBIASED information and the opportunity to listen to first hand experiences...no opinions, no marketing hoopla, and no one trying to make a sale - I am certainly not affiliated with anyone.

There is no doubt that JDM produces a nice, quality, great performing kit. Please note that I am not, by any means, refuting that...and I never have. I respect anything and everything TeamJDM has done for these trucks. I am sure there is even more to come. I cant wait to see one of these trucks run an 11.9x on 23s :eek:

Light02atl 12-08-2008 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard_P_Harvey (Post 12195)
Not true, the Stage I (3.25") kit is good for an additional 60-70 RWHP and the Stage II (3.00") kit is near 100 additional RWHP. Don't hold me to those numbers but you get the point.


Its not a matter of getting the HP that is on the sticker. A warranty is not voided by the power that is put down. If that were the case, a vehicle would have to be dynoed to void warranty :) Saleen, conveniently put that little tab on the supercharger pulley. If that is tampered with, it voids the warranty. I do not know if that is their way around the magnusson-moss act or not. Even if you run an aftermarket tune in your truck....and your engine goes boom from something totally NOT related to the new tune...9 times out of 10, your warranty will be voided. Those Ford/Saleen Engineers have a knack for finding something wrong that you caused when it is high dollar :)

dentguy 12-08-2008 05:37 PM

well maybe one day saleen will sell an approved aftermarket upgrade kit such as the stage 1 kit. because i just don't see these stage1 kits causing any ill effects to the motors or trans imo. hell they had to get jdm to wake em up with the kits anyways. just a thought.

Jim D. 12-08-2008 06:09 PM

Some SpeedLab add-ons can retain the warranty depending on who installed it.

Every automaker will void the warranty if you've performed certain mods to the car.

It's not so much the amount of power being produced, but they've lost control of how it is produced and under what conditions.

A horsepower upgrade may also imply that you might mistreat the vehicle and prematurely break it.

Simply put, if you want more horsepower, be prepared to pay for it -- in this case, that also includes the benefits of the warranty.

dentguy 12-08-2008 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim D. (Post 12202)
Some SpeedLab add-ons can retain the warranty depending on who installed it.

Every automaker will void the warranty if you've performed certain mods to the car.

It's not so much the amount of power being produced, but they've lost control of how it is produced and under what conditions.

A horsepower upgrade may also imply that you might mistreat the vehicle and prematurely break it.

Simply put, if you want more horsepower, be prepared to pay for it -- in this case, that also includes the benefits of the warranty.


so.. I guess It's how fast can you afford to go upgrades. I gotcha.

haulin S331 12-08-2008 06:43 PM

Upgrade
 
Jim D. where are the fan relays located on the truck, mine truck is a 07 Bumper # 309. If its just the relays I would just change them. Thanks for any help. Haulin S331.

SaleenKS 12-08-2008 07:42 PM

It just makes me mad that I have to spend thousands of dollars and void my warranty just so I can get my truck to run, shift, and cool correctly. Does JDM offer a kit that doesnt void warranty, that just makes the truck run properly? Is there anyway that JDM could lean on Saleen and try to get them to accept the stage1 kit under warranty? I have a feeling that voiding my warranty would be a huge mistake on this vehicle!

Jim D. 12-08-2008 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haulin S331 (Post 12206)
Jim D. where are the fan relays located on the truck, mine truck is a 07 Bumper # 309. If its just the relays I would just change them. Thanks for any help. Haulin S331.

That's a question for JimIII or someone besides myself.

Dave 12-08-2008 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light02atl (Post 12197)
Ah, the light has been shined on light02. I see how things work around here now.

Naw'. Jim-the-3rd asked Jim D. if he was allowed to post in our forums since Jim-the-3rd wasn't sure if he was allowed to post since he/JDM is not a sponsor to paying entity to SOEC.

There's no pay to play. It's an open board. Jim D. invited Jim-the-3rd to partake and discuss in this crazy social electronic network community.

We work around here okay. Ask saleenlocator about paying to play and having a door slammed.

Maybe we should sell SOEC logo flashlights.

Anyway, yeah. Those S331s are good stuff! Keep on keeping on!

Light02atl 12-08-2008 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dentguy (Post 12203)
so.. I guess It's how fast can you afford to go upgrades. I gotcha.


To quote many racers....ya gotta pay if ya wanna play. Wait, maybe thats what prostitutes say, not racers, I cant remember.

SaleenKS, you can remove the JDM kit and take it in for warranty work. Just remember to put the tune back to stock also. Then, everything is fine. I actually asked Saleen why they didnt incorporate JDM's kit from the factory. They refused to answer. I asked in a public forum, in an email, and on the phone. I got the run around. Are you familiar with the magnusson-moss act? Basically, it says that a warranty cannot be voided if there are aftermarket performance parts on a vehicle, unless the damage in question was caused by the aftermarket part. As I said, however, these engineers they send in for a major warranty claim investigation have a way of determining that your "mod" caused the problem.

Example: We all know that many Ford lightnings were prone to spitting out spark plugs from their head....even in stock form. However, lets say someone adds 4psi to their engines and a great tune...then the plug blows out. The warranty claim, in some cases, is denied because you modified your vehicle. (ask me how I know this.)

These trucks are great, but 90% of them should never have made it out of Saleen with all of their problems. The performance output is WAY inflated. The engine is rated at 450hp, but, I think, most of these trucks dyno at 340ish stock. Thats about a 25% powertrain loss. SOME of those horses can be gained back by simply putting the pinion angle back to where it should be.

2007SaleenS331 12-09-2008 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haulin S331 (Post 12206)
Jim D. where are the fan relays located on the truck, mine truck is a 07 Bumper # 309. If its just the relays I would just change them. Thanks for any help. Haulin S331.

The fan relay is located by the battery on the passenger side inner fender. Saleen told me that the fans draw to much amprage for the relays, which end up burning the inline fuses and holders. Both my fans smoked in less then 5000 miles. Saleen warranteed it which their mechanical fan kit.

Richard_P_Harvey 12-09-2008 08:35 AM

So I spent about 45 minutes on the phone with Mike Troyer yesterday and like others here I agree he is a great guy and VERY knowledgeable. Mostly he impressed me with his willingness to share and low key selling style.

So here I am now looking at the JDM kit and the Troyer kit. Jim III has a new price of $1600 and Mike has a new price of $1200. Jim's new price is a drop and Mike's is an increase of $200 however Mike's kit is still $400 (or 25%) less expensive. Mike provides 3 tunes and JDM only provides one. They both claim however that they will work with the customer on multiple tunes until happy. The JDM kit looks far more stock due to the use of the Roush air assembly and I like that. In that they both use the same size pulley my guess is the increase in HP and TQ should be in the same ballpark. Mike claims he can eliminate all of the shifting issues, surging and spark blow out. He also claims that he is able to tighten up the shifting to a great degree short of the valve body sway.

I'm hopeful other here can fill in the blanks for me so I can understand if the extra $400 is worth is or if we need to tell Jim that a $300 drop in price was not enough.

Light02atl 12-09-2008 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2007SaleenS331 (Post 12221)
The fan relay is located by the battery on the passenger side inner fender. Saleen told me that the fans draw to much amprage for the relays, which end up burning the inline fuses and holders. Both my fans smoked in less then 5000 miles. Saleen warranteed it which their mechanical fan kit.


Dave, it amazes me that on a vehicle of this caliber, Saleen's simple solution is to just "put a mechanical fan on it" rather than upgrade the relays.

You can buy upgraded relays that fix this problem....if you still have the stock Saleen electric fans. If you have the mechanical fan, there are kits out there that range from $400-$700. I will say that a GOOD relay for this kit is $200-$300 by itself.

Light02atl 12-09-2008 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard_P_Harvey (Post 12238)
So I spent about 45 minutes on the phone with Mike Troyer yesterday and like others here I agree he is a great guy and VERY knowledgeable. Mostly he impressed me with his willingness to share and low key selling style.

So here I am now looking at the JDM kit and the Troyer kit. Jim III has a new price of $1600 and Mike has a new price of $1200. Jim's new price is a drop and Mike's is an increase of $200 however Mike's kit is still $400 (or 25%) less expensive. Mike provides 3 tunes and JDM only provides one. They both claim however that they will work with the customer on multiple tunes until happy. The JDM kit looks far more stock due to the use of the Roush air assembly and I like that. In that they both use the same size pulley my guess is the increase in HP and TQ should be in the same ballpark. Mike claims he can eliminate all of the shifting issues, surging and spark blow out. He also claims that he is able to tighten up the shifting to a great degree short of the valve body sway.

I'm hopeful other here can fill in the blanks for me so I can understand if the extra $400 is worth is or if we need to tell Jim that a $300 drop in price was not enough.


Richard, while performance is the same, the JDM kit has more "parts." The $400 extra includes two brackets to relocate your PS res, and (I think) your intercooler res. It also includes an enclosed airbox that costs more than than the open element on the Troyer kit. It also includes a step by step CD. It also includes a new serpentine belt, but I was told that this isnt needed?? The Troyer kit does not require relocation of anything. The $400 comes down to how you want your kit to look.

dentguy 12-09-2008 09:40 AM

man, to think I could have waited another month and have gotten my jdm kit 300$ cheaper that sucks! wonder if jdm would offer a big discount to us people who paid the over inflated price on some other mod hmmm. just asking. the kits side by side there is a big difference it's worth the 400$ diff. I'm sure if the troyer kit came with the roush airbox, the kits would be the same price, however you would get 3 tunes from the troyer kit. 1 for 91 octane, 1 for 93 octane, maybe 1 of the 2 w/ethonal not sure. and I think troyers new kit comes w/brisk plugs btw I installed my new brisk plugs from troyer they perform fantastic, idle is smooth no high speed miss, I also put the 170 degree stat in but no change on the gauge. but hopfuly it will run cooler this summer.

Light02atl 12-09-2008 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dentguy (Post 12242)
and I think troyers new kit comes w/brisk plugs btw I installed my new brisk plugs from troyer they perform fantastic, idle is smooth no high speed miss,


The troyer kit does not come with new, brisk plugs. They are $120.

dentguy 12-09-2008 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light02atl (Post 12243)
The troyer kit does not come with new, brisk plugs. They are $120.

well, when I talked to him a week ago he said his 1200$ kit would include the brisk plugs that is what I was told. ya may want to call him and ask.

Richard_P_Harvey 12-09-2008 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light02atl (Post 12241)
Richard, while performance is the same, the JDM kit has more "parts." The $400 extra includes two brackets to relocate your PS res, and (I think) your intercooler res. It also includes an enclosed airbox that costs more than than the open element on the Troyer kit. It also includes a step by step CD. The Troyer kit does not require relocation of anything. The $400 comes down to how you want your kit to look.

The only reason that JDM has to include the re-lo brackets is because the Roush air box is huge and needs the room, no real benefit in my view. I agree the Roush air delivery system looks better (or more stock) but I don't see that to be worth $400, after all how much do you LOOK at the engine. I think Jim needs to re-think his new price again, if the difference were $100 then it would be easy. I also like that Mike provides the 3 separate tunes, by the way they are. 1. Base tune used for towing 2. Street tune, better performance 91 octane OK and 3. Performance tune, best power but 93 octane only. Jim get us 3 tunes and a better price and we will beat your door down.

Light02atl 12-09-2008 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dentguy (Post 12244)
well, when I talked to him a week ago he said his 1200$ kit would include the brisk plugs that is what I was told. ya may want to call him and ask.

I gotcha dentguy. Last time I spoke with him, he was increasing the price from $1000 to $1200 in mid December, no talk of including Brisk plugs being included. This must be something he just decided. I wonder if there will be another price hike in mid-december? How hard was it to install the brisk plugs?

and.....thanks for sharing the info!

dentguy 12-09-2008 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light02atl (Post 12246)
I gotcha dentguy. Last time I spoke with him, he was increasing the price from $1000 to $1200 in mid December, no talk of including Brisk plugs being included. This must be something he just decided. I wonder if there will be another price hike in mid-december? How hard was it to install the brisk plugs?

and.....thanks for sharing the info!

not hard at all. apparently saleen replaced the plugs w/ht0 and used the nickle coating on them. however the pass side ticking noise that sounded awful that the dealer said was a normal sound was the plug it was loose and I think that was the full boost missing problem I was having. that thin electrode wire was missing, it was there on the other plugs, it ran great on normal acceleration, only in wot would it miss. I may have misunderstood on witch plug it was, but he did say it would include the plugs and we were talking about brisk plugs

haulin S331 12-09-2008 05:36 PM

Upgrade
 
Well thanks for relay location, Guess I will have to look again.

burnouts331 12-09-2008 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light02atl (Post 12240)
Saleen's simple solution is to just "put a mechanical fan on it" rather than upgrade the relays.

You can buy upgraded relays that fix this problem....if you still have the stock Saleen electric fans. I will say that a GOOD relay for this kit is $200-$300 by itself.

I think Saleen should replace the relays instead of replacing with the mechanical fans. Everyone that bought one of these trucks did so because of their looks and performance. So therefore no one looks forward to losing 10-15hp in performance which is what happens when you replace the electric fans with the mechanical ones. Sure you can upgrade it yourself but why do so when you paid top dollar for a truck that had defective relays when you bought it. Saleen should bite the bullet and lose the two to three hundred dollars that it would cost to replace rather than leaving a bad taste in all of their customers' mouths. I personally don't think that kind of business will help boost future sells. I am looking to replace the relays myself rather than swapping in the electric fans for mechanical ones but I would hope Saleen would step up before I do and do it themselves. I can't wait forever though. I don't won't my Saleen sitting on the side of the interstate smoking just because I didn't replace them in time.

So Light02alt where do you suppose we could get a good relay kit for these trucks for the price you mentioned. I just can't stand the feeling of loosing any hp in these trucks. I also love the sound. The truck just wouldn't be the same without it.

burnouts331 12-09-2008 11:47 PM

I love that the JDM kit dropped $300. However, I still belive that is priced a little high when there is another kit on the market that can provide the same performance with a price that is set $400 cheaper. It sounds like it is still not 100% known whether or not the spark plugs are included in the troyer kit. If they are that is awesome! I also belive the jdm kit looks better but that is a personal opinion and shouldn't not have too much of an influence on price. When I put the kit in my truck I am not gonna be doing burnouts or going down the drag strip with my hood open. The only time I plan on opening my hood is when I go to get my truck serviced, which the kit will then be replaced with the stock setup since it will void the warranty. I hope JDM can consider another price drop to make it a little cheaper, espically if the troyer kit contains the spark plugs. I wouldn't mind paying around one to two hundred more dollars for their kit since it looks better and their reputation supercedes them but $400 is still a little much.

Richard_P_Harvey 12-10-2008 08:25 AM

Hey burnouts331 - Just poking a little fun at ya here - Your username is "burnouts331" but you don't do them, what gives..... :-)

I agree with what you said, JimIII needs to take another look at pricing.

Light02atl 12-10-2008 08:34 AM

Saleen says they only lost 2hp by swapping to a mechanical fan. Maybe thats true, maybe its not. Its strange that vendors boast 10-15hp increase and better mpg, but when Saleen does it, its only 2hp.

Burnouts331....you mention hurting future sales of Saleen. Sales are already hurting and many think that Saleen is...well...done.

You can get the relays from Troyer. I talked to Mike, in length, about them. I believe one sells for $300, and the other sells for $400. I might be wrong though. His 16" fan kit runs $429. Mike is at PRI this week, but someone at his shop should be able to get you what you need.

Wouldnt this be a funny scenario...your SC stops working because it is seized up. You take it in for service. Saleen says, yeah, we have been having problems with them. They take it off and replace it with an NA setup.....even though you paid for a SC. (kind of exaggerated scenario regarding fans)

The above statement is just hypothetical, it has not happend, but it gets the point across.

burnouts331 12-10-2008 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard_P_Harvey (Post 12316)
Hey burnouts331 - Just poking a little fun at ya here - Your username is "burnouts331" but you don't do them, what gives..... :-)

I agree with what you said, JimIII needs to take another look at pricing.

I was trying to say that I don't do burnouts with my "hood open" (as far as showing off the stage 1 kit goes).

Dave 12-10-2008 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnouts331 (Post 12369)
I can't really quote what I said because my post has been removed. I don't really know why they did that, I didn't bash anyone and it was my personal opinion that I felt needed to be expressed.

No posts were removed from this thread.

JimIII@JDM 12-15-2008 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnouts331 (Post 12293)
I love that the JDM kit dropped $300. However, I still belive that is priced a little high when there is another kit on the market that can provide the same performance with a price that is set $400 cheaper. It sounds like it is still not 100% known whether or not the spark plugs are included in the troyer kit. If they are that is awesome! I also belive the jdm kit looks better but that is a personal opinion and shouldn't not have too much of an influence on price. When I put the kit in my truck I am not gonna be doing burnouts or going down the drag strip with my hood open. The only time I plan on opening my hood is when I go to get my truck serviced, which the kit will then be replaced with the stock setup since it will void the warranty. I hope JDM can consider another price drop to make it a little cheaper, espically if the troyer kit contains the spark plugs. I wouldn't mind paying around one to two hundred more dollars for their kit since it looks better and their reputation supercedes them but $400 is still a little much.


I understand where your coming from with the pricing, it isnt a cheap kit. But what you have to understand is we have a ton of cost and overhead into the kit. The price drop i was able to get is cutting down our profit margin to almost nothing. I will see if there is anyway i can get plugs included in the kit. Im not a fan of brisk plugs at all and will not sell them with our kit. I will only use autolite HTO's gapped at .030". I know they work great simply becasue there has only been 2 sets in our truck with over 60 K miles on them! the first set remained ungapped for about 20000 miles. Then we changed to a set gapped at .030" for nearly 40K miles now and have never had a single issue. That is with 13 psi boost, racing, race fuel, towing, and every day driving.

Please dont compare our kits on price the troyer kit does have a cheaper air intake setup making the price easier to work with. Ours is much more expensive and will handle over 500 RWHP!

JimIII


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