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-   -   Calibration Q: Saleen Instrument Cluster? (https://saleenforums.soec.org/showthread.php?t=7578)

Tobynt 06-16-2010 05:10 PM

Same problem, I'm checking with S351r to see how much he would charge for one of his old clusters. If it's to high I'm going to go with a cobra 160 speed-o with a custom Caribbean Designs overlay on it. Doing the cobra so at least it will not be a GT, Going to go ahead and have the Mach1 style numbers and the saleen logo, figure if its not original...I can change it to at least look completely different instead of looking like a close 2nd. I already have a ton of money in a spare speed-o and saleen overlays. Now I'm just going to weigh the balance of the cost for a used cluster from S351R or a new face kit.

apicia 06-25-2010 05:54 PM

Seems the only solution is to pick a cluster you want (150mph or 160mph) and have Caribbean Customs create a face plate for you. You can custom order the correct Saleen font and black dial ($55 for font and $15 for black dial). Then, have Ford remarry the new cluster to your car.

Since no one is interested in fixing the Saleen device or having someone else fix it. Ridiculous.

Coderedsaleen 06-25-2010 09:49 PM

This is not a bash on Caribbean Customs but I have bought alot of stuff from them. I have one of the Saleen white face overlays that I used on another cluster and you can tell that it is not an original overlay. I like all their other stuff but the overlays, I was not impressed. I found an original Saleen cluster and installed that in mine. Yes the speedometer is off, but I have figured out what speed I am going by clocking it with another car. I run 80mph on the gauge but actual is 62mph. I can take a pic of the overlay if you are interested and I probably sell it also. Just my .02 cents worth.

Stang281 06-27-2010 01:32 PM

Hey i just found a link about swapping the odometer unit into an autometer cluster.

http://www.99darkgreengt.com/automet...ometertech.htm

I bought a Saleen cluster that i want to swap into my GT but the cluster is about 40,000 miles under what my car has. If I'm installing the Saleen gauge cluster into my GT would that work so my mileage would show up correctly? Also i read somewhere that the PATS system is controlled by that unit also but im unsure if that is true.

apicia 06-27-2010 09:30 PM

I wish they still sold the GT version of the Autometer. You can find 120mph V6 versions of the Autometer gauges around, but 120mph? Simco is sold out of gauges (out of production). Not many choices out there for a Saleen owner whose cluster goes bad.

Stang281 06-27-2010 09:42 PM

Do you know if swapping my GT odometer unit into the Saleen cluster would work the same way instread of it going into the autometer cluster? That would save about $150-$200 to ship the two clusters out to have electronic speedo do it. Sorry for so many questions, just trying to figure things out before i take them apart

Coderedsaleen 06-29-2010 01:41 PM

Here are some pictures of the Caribbean Customs white face gauges:

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/IMG_0862.jpg

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/IMG_0855.jpg

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/IMG_0856.jpg

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/IMG_0853.jpg

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/IMG_0852.jpg

Here is a picture of the circuit board, no modules that can be removed :

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/IMG_0857.jpg

Back of the gauges:

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/IMG_0866.jpg

Stang281 06-30-2010 10:55 AM

Based on the autometer instructions, the green circuit board on the back of the gauges is what is taken off and transfered over

Tobynt 07-20-2010 12:43 PM

re-cal of new gauges
 
I have an old set of gauge overlays from Saleen, I'm going to put them on a GT gauge cluster and try to comp my speed o using my SCT programmer. I know the RPM's will be off by 1000 but it beats nothing. I also have a seat of pro-racer so disabling PATS isn't going to be an issue. I'll try and post what tire size combo does the trick after I get to it.

Coderedsaleen 07-20-2010 06:46 PM

If you put the GT cluster in it with the Saleen overlay everything else will work as if was in the GT (if the needles are placed back on correctly) except the Speedometer. No matter what you to it with the SCT programmer or tire size it still will not sweep correctly because it is in the programming of the cluster. The speedo needle gauge gets it signal from the speed sensor through the PCM then to chips in the cluster to determine the needle position. What you can do to see how much the cluster is off is to go into the test mode for the cluster, how do you do that? Well first hold down the trip reset as you start the car. Then release after the car is running, this will put it into test mode, pushing the trip reset again it will go through all the things it will test. Some are sensor reading but some useful things for the novice are; bulb test, RPM's, and speed. You will have to play with it to see which one it for the speedometer. Sometime when you go though the whole list it will kick you out and you will have to turn off the car and redo it again.

So the only actual way we can cure this is by getting an actual Saleen cluster and get it reset to the car if you have PATS or install the cluster and disable the PATS.

The mileage in the cluster will be the mileage, not sure if the dealer can set it to your original or not.

This is first hand experience since I tried to put a Cobra cluster in mine and the mileage was what was on the cluster. Since I still had the PATS I didn't want to disable it because it is easy to disable but a PIA to reactivate it. So I reinstalled the OEM with a real Saleen overlay and all the gauges read correctly except the speedometer.

Just some info since this keeps going round and round with no solution. If Dave or Jim could talk to Steve Saleen and find out how the speedometer where manufactured it would clear up all this, but then again this would prevent people from putting OEM Saleen clusters in non actual Saleen's. If the "calibration" machine is broke there is nothing that we can do to get it fixed since this is not a priority of "Saleen" to fix since the cars are six years old or older and are under new management.

If Saleen Speedlab was to research what is needed to fix or calibrate new clusters for our years it would be a plus for us, but it cost money and there is not much of a market to offset the cost for such research.

There still has to be a way get these fixed though!

Just my 2cents.

Coderedsaleen 08-24-2010 09:32 PM

Reposted pictures.

tennesseemustangperformance 09-06-2010 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apicia (Post 39923)
Seems the only solution is to pick a cluster you want (150mph or 160mph) and have Caribbean Customs create a face plate for you. You can custom order the correct Saleen font and black dial ($55 for font and $15 for black dial). Then, have Ford remarry the new cluster to your car.

Since no one is interested in fixing the Saleen device or having someone else fix it. Ridiculous.


I don't understand how CC can recreate the Saleen logo without legal reprocussion? Seems like Saleen would be all over that. Then again, I would have thought they would be all over Ebay for alllll of those sellers out there selling fake Saleen badges.

Anyway, you should be able to recalibrate the gauge cluster to 200mph with an adjustable VSS module. I installed one ina friend's car who did a T-56 swap (still 150mph speedo though)... all you do is set your perimeters at different speeds and you are good to go.

tennesseemustangperformance 09-06-2010 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coderedsaleen (Post 42416)
Reposted pictures.


No offense, but I would be upset with CC on those. The lettering is off quite a bit, the letters appear to be red, and the "normal" lettering is definitely not profesional. Like I said, no offense or anything, but I would be highly upset with them on that one!

Dave 09-06-2010 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennesseemustangperformance (Post 42923)
I don't understand how CC can recreate the Saleen logo without legal reprocussion? Seems like Saleen would be all over that. Then again, I would have thought they would be all over Ebay for alllll of those sellers out there selling fake Saleen badges.

Saleen Inc was on top of it. MJA/SPV less so. I've been informed that SPV could start regulating this better.

tennesseemustangperformance 09-06-2010 03:41 PM

I would imagine it would go to the hands of whoever legally owns the Saleen name now.

OxfordS281 09-28-2010 03:54 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=270641578075

a 200mph cluster with 80,121 miles. i was considering buying this but after going through this thread it seems a headache to get to work in any 99-04. i know one guy said he got his dyno tuner to program his saleen cluster into his GT. hes on svtperformance if anyones interested in contacting him pm me. he was parting out his GT.

OxfordS281 01-19-2011 06:42 PM

Cluster install
 
I purchased a Saleen cluster off ebay recently for my car. I have some questions.

i have a 2002 gt with the stock 150 cluster. I took that out when i purchased an autometer cluster. I took this tiny chip out which contained my miles on my car, 74k and put it in the autometer. when I turned my car on everything worked great lights fuel rpms speed etc. So if i have this saleen cluster can I just take the mileage chip out of the autometer/ stock 150mph cluster( with 74k original miles) and put it in the saleen one?

That way it will be the saleen cluster, but my mileage. I can use the green circuit board and such from the white saleen cluster I just want accurate mileage. also i was curious as to how the speedometer would read whether itd be accurate.

I dont know much about the PATS system. what I was going to do is put my stock cluster from my GT back into my car take it up to ford and ask if they could change the computer chips, containing the mileage, and possibly activate the pats i know this will cost 100 to 150 or whatever.

Im not trying to sabatoge my CPU or make my 74k Mustang appear to have unaccurate mileage. all i want is the saleen cluster installed with the accurate mileage. I dont want to get accused or trying to ruin the data and tamper with the mileage... any ideas... i read through the thread, but im confused as to whether the OP was saying his actual cluster broke, and what he needed or wanted. Would requiring one of these gauge clusters to work require the computer from a saleen, like the one near the passenger seat?

S351r 01-19-2011 10:28 PM

I wouldn't remove the chip. It should be the one that contains the calibration for the speedo.
The PATS system: You will have to take the car to the dealership to have the PATS reset when you install the cluster. It will still have the VIN in it from the original car and when your PATS system tries to talk to it it will disable the ignition.

Coderedsaleen 01-19-2011 11:36 PM

What chip are you talking about removing? The pics I posted of the speedo taken apart did not have a chip that you could remove. Unless I missed it.

If it is a authentic Saleen cluster you can take it and your car to the dealer and they can install the cluster then program the PATS to work with your car.

That is the thing with the PATS system, you can not just swap clusters at home unless you had the PATS turned off at some point.

OxfordS281 01-20-2011 09:47 PM

the chip i was talking about is that lil green circuit board held on my two screws in the pictures below. in my autometer instruction it says to take that out of the stock cluster and put into the autometer one which i did and it reads my mileage. the saleen cluster i purchased apparently has 24k on it. my car has 74 original. if i take it to the dealer they cannot do anything about that can they?

my dad also put this in my car when he used to own it.

http://www.ravelco.com/

i cannot start my car without this plug inserted into it. i dont know if this being installed has anything to do with my PATS.

tennesseemustangperformance 01-25-2011 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S351r (Post 38802)
If anyone needs an original cluster send me a pm with year. I have a few from 96-04. For the 99-04 I won't be able to tell you how many miles. Your Ford dealer can reprogram the PATS system to work with your car. If your car is an original Saleen Ford may be able to reprogram your mileage into the new cluter. You will have to confirm with Ford on that one. 99-04 clusters are $375 plus shipping. On the 96-98 I'll have to make sure I still have them. I don't have any spare S351 clusters currently. I have been told the Dallas speed cal won't work for a 200 mph speedo. I have never verified it though. Best bet would be to call them and ask.

Still have a 1994-1998 150? I prefer a 1996-1998, but the redline does not bother me that much, so a 1994-1995 would be fine too. How would one go about reprogramming for 200MPH on a 1996-1998? PM me with the details, if you would, on the gauges. Thanks!

Husker02GT 07-08-2012 04:34 PM

Is there any update on this since the return of 'Saleen' to Steve?

S351r 07-08-2012 05:51 PM

You won't see any updates on this. The machine that did the calibration is damaged beyond repair and the cost to replace could not be re-coup'd. Before the machine was damaged you would spend $300 just to have the calibration done not to mention the cost of the faces. Not many people would pay that.

Greg Wackett 07-09-2012 08:59 AM

Scott is 100% correct we tried with Spring when the machine was in Irvine, with Jess when it was in MI and no luck.

rayraytdog 11-21-2012 09:02 AM

I got a question, I've been thinking of doing gears (3.27 to maybe 3.73), and worry about speedometer being off. I of course have factory Saleen gauges, but don't know if it would be off by a crazy amount or speedometer would be darn close? According to my Garmin it already reads a little higher than actual speed....only reason I haven't done anything yet is fear speedometer would be way off

S351r 11-21-2012 02:46 PM

Change the speedo gear on the speed sensor mounted to the drivers side of the trans. Ford racing sells the correct one.

01saleen223 11-22-2012 11:23 AM

99 and newer have to be calibrated in ecm
 
99 and newer dont have gear at side of trans, trans is magnetic driven instead of gear driven , on 98 and older. Tune must be done by flashing ecm , we use delta force software, for majority of tuning, as well as sct and diablo if you have local tuner in your area, for those in areas with no tuning you can send your ecm to me we bench them and send back same as you can do with saleen or any reutable tuner.


Nothing needs to be done to cluster

rayraytdog 12-04-2012 01:27 AM

I have a SCT tuner and I know that on regular GT's you can adjust the speedometer sweep, haven't tried it on Saleen gauge yet, but doubt it will work

WhiteFaleen2001 04-22-2013 04:05 PM

Any updates on if you can calibrate a Saleen 200 Speedo with a GT yet?

WhiteFaleen2001 04-22-2013 05:04 PM

And if not, what would I need from a totaled Saleen to make the Speedo work?

S351r 04-23-2013 08:47 PM

You will have to find the gauges from a wrecked Saleen. Be careful though. There are a lot of clusters with just the faces added. You will only need the speedo however, you will have to take it to the Ford dealer to have the PATS system redone so it will recognize the cluster. Clusters have the VIN stored in them for the car they are in.

Legallyfast 04-23-2013 11:39 PM

Can you use an SCT on an 02? and if so does it have the ability to adjust the speedo? I corrected mine on my 06 like this

Husker02GT 04-29-2013 10:15 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Not a 200MPH cluster, but the next best thing for a clone... I had some custom gauges made. They are white face gauges, and light up indiglo. Definitely sets it apart from the stock GT gauges, and more true to Saleen form than a simple white faced gauge.

Husker02GT 08-02-2013 12:33 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Had some issues initially with bad solders, got them fixed and everything working. Once again, not authentic, but good option for clones or those that need replacements.

PEGAZUS 08-10-2013 08:40 AM

My Florida / Connecticut S281 MPH speedo template was swapped for the KM speedo template as the car is now in Canada. The needle still points to 10 o'clock (60 MPH) instead of 12 o'clock when doing 100 Km per hour (the approximate same speed as 60MPH). The sweep (acceleration rate) of the needle needs to be re-calibrated so it will rise faster and rest at the 12 noon position at highway speeds. Is this a mechanical fix or software, or both? Leaving the car with someone to test possibilities / theories is not in my game plan. Options: I could put the original template back in or.........?

PEGAZUS 02-26-2014 01:00 PM

"Heiler-Tachodesign" in Germany just made a 0-300KPH speedometer disc for me, customised exactly the way I wanted it. Photos to follow.....
This solves my problem (the 0-240KPH speedo disc does not line up with the accelleration rate of my speedometer needle).

tennesseemustangperformance 03-02-2014 06:43 AM

You should be able to use an adjustable V.S.S. to correct the speedo issue, if I am not mistaken.

jmoschetti45 03-13-2014 09:06 AM

New here, just came across this looking for something similar. Thinking about building one that would exceed the 150mph speedo, and saw the 200mph saleen ones...

Being an electrical engineer, I'm going with this would be difficult but not impossible.

Since I don't have a cluster to take a very close look at, can someone confirm a few things?

The pictures above of the board make me assume its a 1 sided pcb?
Are there any other smaller pcbs in the cluster?
Is the lcd directly attached to the main pcb?
Can someone get the numbers off all the ICs on the board (s)?
Do we know if the data from the pcm to the cluster is analog or digital?
I assume even if the gauge data is analog the pats data would be digital?

Just some things to start off with.

My theory on operation:
The odo reading is stored in eeprom. I don't see any battery on there and that just wouldn't be practical anyways. Without being able to read anything on any of the ICs I can't tell if there's separate epprom or if its stored in the microcontroller eeprom. If its separate epprom a programmer could easily download/upload data to it, albeit probably will involve desoldering the IC to do so, though it may be possible to tack on jumpers.

Same with the microcontroller. Its data can be dumped and reverse engineered.

Pats may fall into this category as well.


Other (less pretty) option:
Take the faces off an authentic saleen cluster, put them on one that works with pats and the odo set by ford, disconnect the servos for the gauges, design and program a second microcontroller to sweep them based on the data from the pcm. If the data is analog this wouldn't actually be too hard, you'd just have a box about the size of a credit card an inch thick to put somewhere behind the cluster wired to it.

This may seem overly complicated, and its far from as easy as we'd like, but I'm the guy who believes with time and determination and skill you can make anything happen. Just like my old paddle shifted 98SE taurus...it can be done...

Werecow 03-13-2014 11:38 AM

I don't know enough to help you here, but I want to wish you luck as there will be several happy people...

PEGAZUS 03-13-2014 09:02 PM

Instrument cluster description
 
The instrument cluster is roughly 3 x 4 x 10 inches in size. If they're fried, it's $ 700.00+ to buy a new one. To transfer your accumulated mileage to the new one, both the new one and old one have to be shipped away to get the mileage dialed in (at an additional cost). If you're familiar with eprom burners, you know there's no magic involved but they will pretend there is just to soak you another $300.00+ for 5 minutes of work plus shipping. They won't ship the old one back.

The cable behind the cluster is held in place with a plastic twin-grabber lock clip that rotates 90 degrees to lock / unlock the 1 x 2 x 2 inch electrical connector that feeds the cluster. If you break the clip (as I have in the past with another vehicle) Ford wants you to buy the entire cable ($ 500.00+) instead of the 4-cent lock clip. The connector colour and clip colour are two different colours - it's an assembly of two parts - the parts could easily be sold separately and you know why they won't.

If the clip is broken, you can't drive the car. As soon as the unlocked connector vibrates loose, the car shuts down like the key has been turned off. At highway speeds, it gets exciting quick - you have nearly no steering and not much else. It drives similar to a GM that way (if you heard the news today) when the key falls out of the ignition.

There is one circuit card assembly / printed circuit board inside the cluster that is physically attached to the connector. There's nothing on the CCA / PCB except runs, if memory serves. All it does is interface the control signals with the light bulbs spread out all across the cluster. The bulbs are controlled by the main computer fed to the cluster through the cable.

Other than the speedo template, the rest of the cluster is just plastic. The largest part secures the various layers of the cluster in place, and makes sure there's only one idiot light illuminated per light bulb. Each bulb is lined up with a light tube that directs the illumination onto one specific part of the speedo template to light up one idiot light. Other bulbs are scattered around without light tubes to provide more generalized backlighting for night time driving. There are a series of plastic clips to lock everything together including the clear dust shield nearest the driver.

If the paint on the template is too thick, no light will be transmitted. The only way to repair a damaged speedo template is to drop in a new one, or replace the entire cluster for 2x to 3x the cost.

As no one I spoke with had any clue about adjusting the acceleration rate of the speedo needle through re-programming / re-burning / gear swapping, I dropped interest and simply replaced the MPH speedo template (or disc) with one that >> accurately << provides KMH at the ration of 1 MPH to 1.609344 KMH (60 MPH is 96.56 KMH). As my Saleen's computer has the speedo needle pointing at 10 o'clock when doing 60MPH, I needed it to point to 10 o'clock when doing 100KMH.

The last 0-240 KMH template I tried said I was going 70KMH when I was doing 100KMH. It has the 100KMH position at 12 o'clock and not 10 o'clock. If you physically remove the needle and place it at the 12 o'clock position when at 10KMH, the needle will not sweep back to zero when you stop.

My new 0-320 KMH template will be installed in a couple of weeks. After the driveway is clear of snow and ice and the salt is gone off the roads (next October at this rate), I'll try it out. I've been using the GPS to tell me my speed - it is accurate as I have checked it against another vehicle. I have both the original MPH and the new KMH templates in case the next owner wants to switch it back. As the GPS can be set to MPH whenever I need to, I can safely drive in the USA without having to rip the dash apart to drop in the MPH template.


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