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-   -   Clutch: The Best For A Picky Person (https://saleenforums.soec.org/showthread.php?t=16651)

Rayder_K 12-21-2013 03:29 AM

Clutch: The Best For A Picky Person
 
Hello everyone,
Happy holidays first of all and thank you for taking the time to read this and help me out.
I have a 2003 Saleen S281, normally aspirated, and my clutch is a stage 2 right now, and it is towards the end of its life. It is slipping, jolting and very very hard to drive. It is like a workout to drive my car anywhere I go, and I am now looking to upgrade to a better clutch, that can actually be nice and smooth, to drive with.

This is where things get hard. I want to put in a supercharger or even a turbo sometime in the future, and I would need a clutch that can handle the force of those pressures, BUT I don't want to have a leg workout every time I drive around the city. Please guys, I don't want to get some random store bought clutch. I'm willing to spend my money on quality parts.

I don't trust any other person's advice, but this blogs, since you guys understand my love for my Saleen. What would you guys recommend for me to put into my car, to fulfill all my problems.

Thank you guys again, I appreciate it so much!

Snakecharmer383 12-21-2013 09:48 AM

While it's not in my Saleen I went with SPEC stage 2+ with a alum. flywheel in my Corvette. About 1k miles in and no issues at all. Pressure is the same as my stock clutch. Grabs great, my vette makes 442rwhp and 496rwtq fyi.

Coderedsaleen 12-21-2013 09:53 AM

Centerforce dual friction clutch would be good for your application w/upgrades and not give your leg a work out.

SimiSaleen 12-21-2013 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coderedsaleen (Post 115134)
Centerforce dual friction clutch would be good for your application w/upgrades and not give your leg a work out.


Totally Agree with this Clutch! :biggrin:

Jason @ 281m 12-21-2013 06:01 PM

ACT Twin Disc with a lightened billet steel flywheel for the win! Your peddle pressure will drop, and it will have the needed clamping power when you do get your forced induction. It will be worth EVERY penny you spend on it. If your street driving the car, avoid aluminum flywheel's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayder_K (Post 115130)
Hello everyone,
Happy holidays first of all and thank you for taking the time to read this and help me out.
I have a 2003 Saleen S281, normally aspirated, and my clutch is a stage 2 right now, and it is towards the end of its life. It is slipping, jolting and very very hard to drive. It is like a workout to drive my car anywhere I go, and I am now looking to upgrade to a better clutch, that can actually be nice and smooth, to drive with.

This is where things get hard. I want to put in a supercharger or even a turbo sometime in the future, and I would need a clutch that can handle the force of those pressures, BUT I don't want to have a leg workout every time I drive around the city. Please guys, I don't want to get some random store bought clutch. I'm willing to spend my money on quality parts.

I don't trust any other person's advice, but this blogs, since you guys understand my love for my Saleen. What would you guys recommend for me to put into my car, to fulfill all my problems.

Thank you guys again, I appreciate it so much!


Rayder_K 12-22-2013 04:48 AM

I've been looking into the SPEC clutch, and hearing good things. But, some people did mention that it is prone to break down. I will do more research

Rayder_K 12-22-2013 04:51 AM

The Centerforce, now I haven't looked into this, but it looks intriguing. How is its durability and reliability?

jpstealth 12-22-2013 02:28 PM

I am in the process of getting a new clutch myself. Looking for something to support a minimum of 400 whp but not difficult to drive. I am waiting for them to go on sale but I have heard nothing but good things about exedy. I am going with the mach 500 stage 2 clutch and their matching lightened billet steel flywheel. Just make sure u get a new throw out bearing from ford.

Jason @ 281m 12-22-2013 06:17 PM

Fyi, we will have the best clutch brand ACT (Advanced Clutch Technology) on sale tomorrow only for 20% off and free shipping.

Rayder_K 12-24-2013 03:17 PM

A Little More Help
 
Ok Guys, took all the advice and did the research. Honestly, all the brands mentioned got nothing, but good reviews. Here's what I came up with from everything.

My first choice is:
1) Centerforce Dual Friction with a Fidanza flywheel.
2) ACT clutch set, but really expensive!

From the two choices, can anyone give a little more incite into the two above?

Jason @ 281m 12-24-2013 04:14 PM

You get what you pay for with your choices. ACT is top notch and a super quality piece.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayder_K (Post 115195)
Ok Guys, took all the advice and did the research. Honestly, all the brands mentioned got nothing, but good reviews. Here's what I came up with from everything.

My first choice is:
1) Centerforce Dual Friction with a Fidanza flywheel.
2) ACT clutch set, but really expensive!

From the two choices, can anyone give a little more incite into the two above?


SimiSaleen 12-24-2013 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason @ 281m (Post 115197)
You get what you pay for with your choices. ACT is top notch and a super quality piece.

Go with the Center Force!:biggrin:

Jason @ 281m 12-24-2013 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimiSaleen (Post 115198)
Go with the Center Force!:biggrin:

Your crazy Oren! LOL. Have you ever driven an ACT equiped car?? :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Coderedsaleen 12-24-2013 10:42 PM

Go with the one that is your sponsor! LOL

All the opinions are subjective... one may work awesome for one and that same one can burn up for another. Depends on the driver and your set up. Race car, go with something that will handle the abuse of running over and over in short amount of time. Daily driver or street race once in a while then go with a less expensive one and you will be happy. Of course the decision is up to you.

Why do you think that your getting good reviews for the less expensive ones? Because they are just as good as the expensive ones for the average user. I have used McLeod and Centerforce for cars up 600hp in my own experience but that is my opinion just like the rest.

Jason @ 281m 12-25-2013 02:42 AM

I'd say almost everyone on here doesn't fit into the "average user" category. And there are certainly a huge difference between an entry level quality part vs a high end level part. In my experience, when people exclaim there experiences with lower end parts it's usually because they haven't experienced a high end part, OR a properly installed/set up part. Just our opinion. And food for thought. ..he hasn't been solicited to buy it from us just a solid recommendation to purchase an epic clutch.

Sponsor...yes...they gave us a clutch to try in our Saleen (New Edge) and another customers Saleen (S197) to examine and evaluate in street and track use....almost two years ago. And after experiencing the quality we try to never offer anything else when we can avoid it. And just an fyi, ACT is usually cheaper than McLeod which is a trusted brand we would confidently sell.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Coderedsaleen (Post 115208)
Go with the one that is your sponsor! LOL

All the opinions are subjective... one may work awesome for one and that same one can burn up for another. Depends on the driver and your set up. Race car, go with something that will handle the abuse of running over and over in short amount of time. Daily driver or street race once in a while then go with a less expensive one and you will be happy. Of course the decision is up to you.

Why do you think that your getting good reviews for the less expensive ones? Because they are just as good as the expensive ones for the average user. I have used McLeod and Centerforce for cars up 600hp in my own experience but that is my opinion just like the rest.


Coderedsaleen 12-25-2013 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason @ 281m (Post 115217)
I'd say almost everyone on here doesn't fit into the "average user" category. And there are certainly a huge difference between an entry level quality part vs a high end level part. In my experience, when people exclaim there experiences with lower end parts it's usually because they haven't experienced a high end part, OR a properly installed/set up part. Just our opinion. And food for thought. ..he hasn't been solicited to buy it from us just a solid recommendation to purchase an epic clutch.

An "Average User" are the ones that drive their car as a street car. Not out beating it like a race car, drag car or road course driver. Most fall into this category only because of the value of these cars, not the driver. You always see people trying to put the least amount of miles on them to keep up the value but there are a handful that do drive as they were intended.

Yes there is a difference between entry level quality part vs. a high end level quality part but high end parts are not always the answer for people with budgets, needs, set ups, etc. I have experienced high end parts and they fail just as lesser ones. Not due to proper installation but due to it being man made and the person using it. Some people even buy it just because of the "Name" on it and they still end up with a "high end" name and cheap product.

This is in no way a bash on "281 Motorsports", you do some awesome work. This is to inform the OP what is available and to make a educated decision from other peoples experience, not to push it down his throat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason @ 281m (Post 115217)
Sponsor...yes...they gave us a clutch to try in our Saleen (New Edge) and another customers Saleen (S197) to examine and evaluate in street and track use....almost two years ago. And after experiencing the quality we try to never offer anything else when we can avoid it. And just an fyi, ACT is usually cheaper than McLeod which is a trusted brand we would confidently sell.

To say you never offer anything else when you can avoid it makes it like you only push ACT even though there are comparable/better clutches out there. Centerforce, Ford Racing, Spec, Ram and the like are not trusted brands? Bias

Solicited sales:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason @ 281m (Post 115217)
Fyi, we will have the best clutch brand ACT (Advanced Clutch Technology) on sale tomorrow only for 20% off and free shipping.


Jason @ 281m 12-25-2013 07:39 PM

Fortunately for us , most of our customer base tends to push their cars so offering quality products are all we offer. Just so you know, ACT has a variety of "average" user clutch options to the full out "bashing" car level as well. :biggrin:

We offer what we know to be the best parts. This is what we do as a profession and derived from first hand testing street and track exp. and culminated from all the expert experience our team comprises...not an opinion. Please understand my goal here on this forum is to help owners make better decisions from a shop full of Mustang/Saleen guys vs. a parts house selling profit based parts. We do have a goal to make sales and stay in business, but the profit on a quality built product is so minimal, that it should be clear our motives equally to make money and genuinely help.

I hope that helps you understand our position and why we recommend the things we do. Ultimately people buy their parts were they do and certainly not always our shop...we're just glad we can offer a suggestion with a bias on quality not a sale/profit.

Merry Christmas none the less!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coderedsaleen (Post 115223)
An "Average User" are the ones that drive their car as a street car. Not o5out z888z888 beating it like a race car, drag car or road course driver. Most fall into this category only because of the value of these cars, not the driver. You always see people trying to put the least amount of miles on them to keep up the value but there are a handful that do drive as they were intended.

Yes there is a difference between entry level quality part vs. a high end level quality part but high end parts are not always the answer for people with budgets, needs, set ups, etc. I have experienced high end parts and they fail just as lesser ones. Not due to proper installation but due to it being man made and the person using it. Some people even buy it just because of the "Name" on it and they still end up with a "high end" name and cheap product.

This is in no way a bash on "281 Motorsports", you do some awesome work. This is to inform the OP what is available and to make a educated decision from other peoples experience, not to push it down his throat.



To say you never offer anything else when you can avoid it makes it like you only push ACT even though there are comparable/better clutches out there. Centerforce, Ford Racing, Spec, Ram and the like are not trusted brands? Bias

Solicited sales:


Rayder_K 12-27-2013 09:40 PM

Thank You All So Much
 
Honestly, my questions have been answered. ACT is definitely one of the best clutch brands out there. That's not just based on your rec Jason, but also proven by some people who own the clutch. But, I honestly couldn't afford that clutch, thus I had to look elsewhere.
Also thanks to the people who recommended Centerforce. That clutch seemed the best for me from the beginning and eventually led me to the Dual Friction X (DFX), which is the clutch I will go with. It gives me room to expand, and maintain low foot pressure and smooth drivability.
Additionally, I plan on purchasing a Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel, to matchup with the clutch. Is this a good idea? Would I be able to keep it once I get a SC or will I have to upgrade?

But, I also got some new questions.
What do the following do?
  • a 26 spline shaft
  • Fiore Quadrant/Firewall
  • Lethal TOB Sleeve
  • FRPP HD TOB

Sorry, Im not too bright with clutch systems.

Thanks again guys, you guys are amazing!

Jason @ 281m 12-29-2013 12:42 AM

My pleasure.

26 is the spline count on the input shift of the transmission. If you have a stock 5 speed T-3650 your spline count is 10. I would recommend the maximum Motorsports quadrant and firewall adjuster. I would stick with the Ford Racing...now Ford Motor port throw out bearing.

Good luck man!


Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayder_K (Post 115271)
Honestly, my questions have been answered. ACT is definitely one of the best clutch brands out there. That's not just based on your rec Jason, but also proven by some people who own the clutch. But, I honestly couldn't afford that clutch, thus I had to look elsewhere.
Also thanks to the people who recommended Centerforce. That clutch seemed the best for me from the beginning and eventually led me to the Dual Friction X (DFX), which is the clutch I will go with. It gives me room to expand, and maintain low foot pressure and smooth drivability.
Additionally, I plan on purchasing a Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel, to matchup with the clutch. Is this a good idea? Would I be able to keep it once I get a SC or will I have to upgrade?

But, I also got some new questions.
What do the following do?
  • a 26 spline shaft
  • Fiore Quadrant/Firewall
  • Lethal TOB Sleeve
  • FRPP HD TOB

Sorry, Im not too bright with clutch systems.

Thanks again guys, you guys are amazing!


Rayder_K 12-31-2013 03:07 AM

I Will Definitely Look Into It
 
I have looked into your store Jason and yes, I will definitely be ordering some parts from you.
So if my Saleen is 10 spline, will the clutch from Centerforce not be compatible with my car, since it is 26 spline?

Coderedsaleen 12-31-2013 08:33 PM

Auto Parts Warehouse (old link removed)

Maybe Jason can match or beat this price on this clutch?

You maybe out of luck on the Centerforce, their website only lists 26 spline type clutches, you could always call them to find out.

Rayder_K 01-01-2014 03:52 AM

Hey That's Looks Nice
 
But I already bought the Centerforce DFX, and also switched it out for a 10 Spline, because I can't afford the 26 Spline shaft at the moment.
I ended up buying the clutch for $480.00.

I bought some FRRP throw out bearings and pilot bearings to matchup with the clutch system.

I plan on grabbing the Ram 6 bolt Billet Steel Flywheel, instead of the Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel. Is that a good choice?

Coderedsaleen 01-01-2014 12:36 PM

You will be happy with the Centerforce.

Actually either flywheel one is a good choice, just depends on what you want. Billet Steel would make more rotating mass by a few pounds, is good for inertia and getting 60 foot times down for drag racers, no question it would lose maybe 20-30hp though and it has smoother engagements without jerkiness. The Aluminum would dissipate the heat faster, less rotating mass, and is used in the 03 Cobra. Less rotating mass gets you into your RPM's faster.


Ram Billet Steel Flywheel is 28lbs
03 Cobra stock Aluminum Flywheel is about 15lbs
Fidanza Billet Aluminum Flywheel is about 12lbs

Jason @ 281m 01-01-2014 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayder_K (Post 115372)
I have looked into your store Jason and yes, I will definitely be ordering some parts from you.
So if my Saleen is 10 spline, will the clutch from Centerforce not be compatible with my car, since it is 26 spline?

I'm quite certain they offer a 10 spline option. I'd give them a call. Our current website sucks imo, wait till our new one goes up! In the meantime if you need something give us a call.

Jason @ 281m 01-01-2014 04:44 PM

This would have been an awesome clutch...we just sold one recently and was very impressed. We could have sold it a tad cheaper with ACT holiday sale. Good lookin out!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coderedsaleen (Post 115399)
(Auto Parts Warehouse Link Removed - old link)

Maybe Jason can match or beat this price on this clutch?

You maybe out of luck on the Centerforce, their website only lists 26 spline type clutches, you could always call them to find out.


Rayder_K 01-06-2014 09:49 PM

I'm Having Trouble Finding the Fiore QA/FWA!
 
Anyone have this kit available for sale?
Additionally, would this kit on eBay work out? It looks very similar to the Fiore kit, but a little cheaper with a supposidly stronger than OEM cable and a micro-click firewall adjuster. Also, the Quadrant looks just like the Fiore.

Jason @ 281m 01-06-2014 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayder_K (Post 115584)
Anyone have this kit available for sale?
Additionally, would this kit on eBay work out? It looks very similar to the Fiore kit, but a little cheaper with a supposidly stronger than OEM cable and a micro-click firewall adjuster. Also, the Quadrant looks just like the Fiore.

I would recommend the maximum Motorsports quadrant and firewall adjuster. I would stick with the Ford Racing...now Ford Motorsport throw out bearing. OEM cable for the win.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Al...tang-P503.aspx
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Fi...2004-P500.aspx
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/MM...2-04-P897.aspx

Buy them direct...we dont mind....but atleast buy the best.

Coderedsaleen 01-07-2014 07:36 PM

Agree with the above... Maximum Motorsports/Ford Racing/OEM

Rayder_K 01-08-2014 03:29 AM

The Link Didn't Show Up On My Last Post
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251273617301...84.m1423.l2649

This is the item I was talking about. It looks like a solid design, but I don't know if it can be trusted.

Its a AMP quadrant and firewall adjuster with an non-adjustable cable. What you guys think? It is a very decent price.

adam dawson 01-08-2014 04:27 AM

ANYTHING is better than the junk stock plastic thing they call a quadrant. there are a total of about 3 small plastic teeth holding the whole thing together.

ive broken or stripped about 5 or 6 stock quadrants.

Jason @ 281m 01-08-2014 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayder_K (Post 115652)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251273617301...84.m1423.l2649

This is the item I was talking about. It looks like a solid design, but I don't know if it can be trusted.

Its a AMP quadrant and firewall adjuster with an non-adjustable cable. What you guys think? It is a very decent price.

We gave you solid advice on parts that are proven. Hope that helps.

nextlevelinnovations 01-08-2014 05:08 PM

You get what you pay for when it comes to this sport/hobby.

Rayder_K 01-09-2014 08:36 PM

Thank you Everyone!
 
I really appreciate all of you for the help! This was a very new subject for me and I had no idea what i was doing. Thanks again guys!

Jason @ 281m 01-09-2014 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayder_K (Post 115714)
I really appreciate all of you for the help! This was a very new subject for me and I had no idea what i was doing. Thanks again guys!

No problem, anytime.

Coderedsaleen 01-09-2014 09:17 PM

That is why we are all here, to give advice, to share experience and harass each other. LOL!!

Jason @ 281m 01-09-2014 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coderedsaleen (Post 115718)
That is why we are all here, to give advice, to share experience and harass each other. LOL!!

Bring it baby! LOL :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

EXTREME12 01-10-2014 10:51 AM

So what clutch is the best one to get..LOL...:biggrin:

Jason @ 281m 01-10-2014 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EXTREME12 (Post 115739)
So what clutch is the best one to get..LOL...:biggrin:

Our choice of clutches in order:
ACT
McLeod
Spec

Coderedsaleen 01-10-2014 08:16 PM

The best clutch to get is one that you can afford for your application. LOL!!!

EXTREME12 01-10-2014 11:44 PM

Haha, I was just joking. I was reading the debate in this spread

Werecow 01-12-2014 01:46 PM

The round one.

Jason @ 281m 01-12-2014 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werecow (Post 115812)
The round one.

Ohh boy...lol

Rayder_K 01-13-2014 01:11 AM

The CF DFX Doesn't Rank in Top 3?
 
Hmm, any reasoning?

Jason @ 281m 01-13-2014 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayder_K (Post 115847)
Hmm, any reasoning?

Quality and innovation.

rjhmustang 04-24-2014 07:33 AM

I am getting ready to put a clutch in my 02 S281SC hardtop.

The car will be mostly street driven but I do plan to make a few passes down the 1/4 mile.

I will be running the Ford steel flywheel.

I have run a Ram musclecar clutch kit in my 70 restomod for two years with no problems. So I have no issues with Ram clutches.

I went to Summit Racing yesterday and on their recommendation I purchased a Ram Powergrip HD clutch kit.

What are your opinions of the Ram Powergrip HD clutch?

Quickshifter04 04-24-2014 08:18 AM

hate to make this thread longer but what would you recomend for one that will just bolt up with no adjustments. like no firewall adjustment are cable adjustments and one that is heavy duty, when I say heavy duty unlike some I actually like to have feeling in my clutch pedal I like it to be heavy pedal. makes me feel like I have a really good performance clutch I know that kind of sounds stupid lol.But when reading I do see some of you are trying to get the light pedal no work out feeling.

Jason @ 281m 04-24-2014 10:33 AM

If you already bought it and your happy from previous use, what's there to question? If you like them rock it! :cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjhmustang (Post 120376)
I am getting ready to put a clutch in my 02 S281SC hardtop.

The car will be mostly street driven but I do plan to make a few passes down the 1/4 mile.

I will be running the Ford steel flywheel.

I have run a Ram musclecar clutch kit in my 70 restomod for two years with no problems. So I have no issues with Ram clutches.

I went to Summit Racing yesterday and on their recommendation I purchased a Ram Powergrip HD clutch kit.

What are your opinions of the Ram Powergrip HD clutch?


Jason @ 281m 04-24-2014 10:35 AM

To keep your heavy peddle pressure go with a single disc. A good clutch is going to reduce that peddle effort to some degree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quickshifter04 (Post 120378)
hate to make this thread longer but what would you recomend for one that will just bolt up with no adjustments. like no firewall adjustment are cable adjustments and one that is heavy duty, when I say heavy duty unlike some I actually like to have feeling in my clutch pedal I like it to be heavy pedal. makes me feel like I have a really good performance clutch I know that kind of sounds stupid lol.But when reading I do see some of you are trying to get the light pedal no work out feeling.


rjhmustang 04-28-2014 12:45 PM

Well I am back.
I installed the clutch over the week end and bought a new Ford TOB which is on the release lever at the transmission.
Now comes the real fun.
I was able to remove the transmission without removing the Kooks LT headers, this was done by unbolting the trans sliding it back about 1 1/2"-2", unbolting the pressure plate, dropping the pressure plate and disc and then rotating the trans 90 degrees.
Now I am ready to reinstall the trans. I realize that the K-member needs to be lowered in order to un-bolt the passenger side header. Is there a written procedure for what has to be done. How much of the front suspension / steering needs to be disconnected?
Sorry that I am being so anal but this is the first time in getting this involved with the 4.6 powered Mustangs. Have plenty of experience with pre-modular drive trains. So I need some help with this.

tennesseemustangperformance 04-28-2014 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjhmustang (Post 120552)
Well I am back.
I installed the clutch over the week end and bought a new Ford TOB which is on the release lever at the transmission.
Now comes the real fun.
I was able to remove the transmission without removing the Kooks LT headers, this was done by unbolting the trans sliding it back about 1 1/2"-2", unbolting the pressure plate, dropping the pressure plate and disc and then rotating the trans 90 degrees.
Now I am ready to reinstall the trans. I realize that the K-member needs to be lowered in order to un-bolt the passenger side header. Is there a written procedure for what has to be done. How much of the front suspension / steering needs to be disconnected?
Sorry that I am being so anal but this is the first time in getting this involved with the 4.6 powered Mustangs. Have plenty of experience with pre-modular drive trains. So I need some help with this.


No big deal really. Just jack up the engine cradle making SURE that it is stably located on the jack. If you have a cherry picker, that is best, but I realize that not everybody has this. Unbolt the steering rack from the ball joints, unbolt the brake calipers, unbolt the swaybar from the end links, remove the front struts and springs (loading the a-arms first with a jack) allowing the control arms to drop down, undo the bolts that attach the K-member to the chassis and drop it down. Drop the cradle down slowly, and if you feel anything giving you resistance, stop! Note: This is in order to drop the K-member slightly for clearance. If you need to drop the cradle more, you will need to disconnect the engine harness and all harnesses that are attached to the engine as well as the chassis, hydroboost lines, vacuum lines, fuel lines, etc. If you are using a basic floor jack, I would prefer to go these extra steps anyway, as it could cause a lot of damage should the engine decide to fall off the jack and rip out the connected harnesses. Hope this helps you, and of course be sure to follow the basic rules of not getting under ANYTHING as you unbolt things.

Good luck!


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