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2007-2008 S331 Sportruck For discussion of the F-150 platform "Thunder." |
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#1
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belt? issue
I have my 3.2" pulley on my SC. That and a stock size gatorback belt. It has been on for about 3000-4000 miles with no issues. I have 6500 miles on the truck.
Within the last few weeks, when I start the truck, I get a loud whooshing sound (like going around in a circle). I am also getting a loud loud tick. Today, I popped my hood when I started it....only to see the belt moving all over the SC pulley. The tensioner was hoppin and a poppin up and down up and down a good bit. I turned the truck off and adjusted the belt so it was in the grooves of the SC. I started the truck up and bam....out of grooves, moving all over. I HAD to go to the store, so I drove it gingerly. When I got there, I left it running.....popped the hood. The belt was on smooth as butter. The tensioner had a little shake (normal)....no ticking whatsoever. I went in the store and came back out about 20 min later. Started it up, no sound. Came home, no sound. So, this is only happening on cold start up, and it is the belt getting out of its grooves. What gives? |
#2
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Found this on the HD site. I know that supposedly you can reuse the stock belt on a 3.2 but my shop installed a smaller belt when they put on my kit.
Just my $0.02 ... http://www.nhtoc.com/vbforum/2006-20...se-help-2.html
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#3
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I have the belt that came with the JDM kit. You got to cut the the little stop tab of the tensioner to install the belt. Haven't had any belt issues.
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#4
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I installed my stock belt (rather than gatorback) and it ran smooth. HOWEVER, the double bearing metco idler pulley started squealing like a banshee...like the stock pulley did. Amazingly....this metco double bearing idler pulley pooped out with the same mileage on it as the stocker did.
It appears that all of the grease spun out of the metco pulley. |
#5
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i bought a stock pulley and installed it with the stock belt.....horrific squeal.
I reinstalled the gatorback belt (with new stock idler pulley).....runs like a champ now. Maybe I DO need a shorter belt with a 3.2" pulley....I dont know. When the truck does squeal, all I have to do is push on the idler pulley and the squeal goes away. I guess only time will tell with this thing.... |
#6
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fixed???
Way back I purchased a slightly larger waterpump pulley. I thought if I put a larger waterpump pulley on there, the belt would wrap around the supercharger pulley a bit better. Unfortunately, even with a smaller 3.2" pulley, I could not get the belt to fit with the oversized waterpump pulley. Many have said that I needed a shorter belt with the 3.2" pulley. Today, it popped in my head....break the tensioner tab so I can get some more slack and use the larger waterpump pulley. Once the belt is tightened back down, it will be like there is a smaller belt on there because of the extra little bit needed to go around the new h2o pump pulley. So, I broke the tensioner tab...no problem. I installed the larger waterpump pulley. I rotated the tensioner down as far as it would go and slid the belt on...barely over the sc pulley. This was done by me climbing into the engine bay and stepping on the bar I used to rotate the tensioner down....the bar was below the oil filter. I got everything installed, snugged up, checked for clearances and to make sure everything was where it should be and then tightened everything down. Everything looked great. Started the truck up....runs smooth as silk. I revved it a little...throttle response even seems to be a tad better. Boost goes up and falls instantly when I left off the gas. The larger waterpump pulley does wrap the belt around the supercharger pulley a little bit more. How much more? Maybe not enough to make a difference, but it is still more. More = better :) I did reuse the gatorback belt. I am not concerned with the truck running any hotter with the slower waterpump pulley on there. Fortunately, it is starting to cool off around here. I am going to keep an eye on it and if it does run a little hot, I will just replace the entire system with water wetter, some anti freeze, and distilled water. That should offset the increase in temp....if there is any. Lets see how long this holds up :) Last edited by Light02atl; 09-06-2009 at 11:39 AM. |
#7
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results.....
I picked up 3psi!!! Yes, THREE (3)...THURHEEEE PSI. The truck's bog is all but completely gone. Driveability is better. At WOT....HOLD ON!!!! I didnt have one noise, squeak, chirp, nothing. This may be why my troyer kit was only making 346 at the wheels and had such a low A/F ratio. I am sure it is making MUCH more now....probably where it SHOULD be! water temp was slightly higher according to the stock gauge....but barely enough to even be noticeable....maybe...10? degrees? |
#8
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So now your boosting 10-11 psi???
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#9
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No. I had some kind of issue where I was only making 6-7 PSI.....even with the 3.2" pulley.
Now, I am making 9 easily |
#10
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Is that off the gauge or datalogged? I only make 7.7 datalogged (albeit the ambient temp was 105 degrees).
Wish I made 9...
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#11
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thats just going off the gauge.
I would think you would make a tad less because of your exhaust system....oh, and 105 degree weather...haha. No WOT datalogging this weekend....too many cops out for Labor Day :) I was just happy to see the boost gauge go up that high....so fast. |
#12
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Even with the 105 I was still registering more than 346 at the wheels so I guess I have NO room to complain...
I plan to add a 3.0 pulley, some headers, and an efan by this winter. That will be my grad school graduation gift to myself. Unfortunately that will max out my mod list until I upgrade the internals and maybe the fuel system. Have you done the 4.56 swap yet? It is BY FAR the best thing I have ever done to this truck. If you haven't, that should definitely be next on your list...
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#13
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i have had my 4.56 gears sitting in the garage for a few months now. I have not had a chance to get them installed!!!
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#14
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Made a quick dyno run with the new exhaust system. We got 375hp to the rear wheels and 430ft lbs of torque at 7 to 8lbs of boost. The tune needs to be dataloged...the air fuel needs attention.
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#15
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Dave,
What is your altitude in MT? |
#16
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Hey Shane...The altitude here is 3600ft and on some days the air here is equivilent to 5000ft. In other words the air just sucks here!
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#17
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got some more test driving in....
The truck makes boost instantly. The difference in performance is amazing. I make more boost, more often. The only adverse effect is IAT2 temps. |
#18
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welp....looks like I need to go to the shop.
The gatorback belt started walking all over the supercharger pulley again. No idea why. It just decided to start doing it. I replaced it with the stock belt....it didnt move but, I got the squeak squeak squeak back. I sanded off the ford and gates logos and that helped a little bit. But, at higher RPMs, I get the squeak squeak squeak. It is very repetetive. So... with stock belt....repetetive squeak...about twive every second at idle Gatorback belt, no squeak, but the belt walks all over the SC pulley. If ANYONE has any idea whats wrong, let me know |
#19
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i swapped to a brand new stock belt today....I had to wait for it to come in the mail.
So far, no squeaks and no dancing belts. I let it idle for 5 min and revved in Neutral a few times....no issues. Hope this holds up. |
#20
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75 miles on it.....and still good.
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#21
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Hi Shane, I know about the belt moving on the S/C pulley. On my Saleen Mustang, S/C pulley , I measured the grooves Stock Saleen S/C pulley .85 and JDM's .65. The Goodyear Gator back belt width of grooves .80 The belt grooves do not fit down into the aftermarket grooves letting the belt move back and forth. Use the new Gates green strip belt I hear it works very well.
Troyer Performance (Mike) just tested the mosaleen idler on a 2007 S-331 with the 3.20 S/C pulley. He called me up and left a message saying" Scot we have a real problem, I LOVE THIS PRODUCT!!!!!!!" He had me for a min. LOL He is sending me the data , info. and has ordered all that I have in stock at the moment (5). It really made a difference , he put it on with the 5 1/4 water pump , stock water pump, and the 5 1/2 inch water pump. The best setup was the mosaleen idler, 5 1/2 inch. water pump, and 111.5 inch. belt. He is sending me the measurements of the S/C pulley and the mosaleen idler pulley distance between them. He thinks I can move it up even closer. Will see. He was really impressed. Scott
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2005 S/C #10 Press Car w/ Scenic Roof 3.20 S/C Pulley & 18% overdrive Crank Mosaleen S/C no slip idler system 3:73 gears, Watts link Gen II 14" front brakes, slotted rear rotors Brenspeed 302, 47lb inj, longtubes/ catted H-pipe 570 rwhp 545 rwtq (SAE) 13.5 lbs boost, Afco heat exchanger F-5 Joplin Mo. Tornado surviour 5-22-11. |
#22
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Quote:
I cannot wait to see the numbers with the Mosaleen idler setup!!!! Mike also has a new exhaust system he is getting ready to test out! |
#23
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Chirp is back. Same idler pulley. This is the third one I have had on there. When idling, if I put a little pressure on it, the chirp stops. I am beginning to think that the boss that the idler mounts to is out of round or something. There is a little wobble or play to every idler pulley I have had on there.
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#24
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I had the same problem on my SAleen Mustang, you put a new belt on and it works for a while, what happens is the belt stretches 1/2 inch. even 1 inch. before mosaleen idler I cut off the tab as much as possible and put on a shorter belt (as tight as I could) it stopped the cherp but as I have proven the belt is still slipping on the 05 to 09 models.
Mike got the info. to me and his hit with mosaleen idler gained 43 rwhp on the S 331 Saleen Stage I kit. Thats fantastic. Cant wait till you get the mosaleen S/C idler pulley sytem with Mikes tune on your Saleen S 331. Scott
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2005 S/C #10 Press Car w/ Scenic Roof 3.20 S/C Pulley & 18% overdrive Crank Mosaleen S/C no slip idler system 3:73 gears, Watts link Gen II 14" front brakes, slotted rear rotors Brenspeed 302, 47lb inj, longtubes/ catted H-pipe 570 rwhp 545 rwtq (SAE) 13.5 lbs boost, Afco heat exchanger F-5 Joplin Mo. Tornado surviour 5-22-11. |
#25
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Yeah Scott, Im not spending $$ on another belt until I get your kit on. Mike said he ran a 111.5" belt. Thats not much shorter than stock. Your theory about the belt stretching a little after it being on does make sense. I bet if I switched belts again, the chirp would go away.
Fortunately, it will be parked for the next month. |
#26
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Quote:
43rwhp sounds like a deal for just a idler pully. So what were the actual numbers? Everyone seems to be putting down around 360 with the stage 1 kit and tune, not dialed in with perfect air/fuel ratio numbers. So does that mean with your setup it would be around 400rwhp or a little higher since I am sure mike had the tune dialed in perfectly? Also did the boost bump up to get these numbers? If so I didn't think you wanted more than 8psi in these trucks without a new exhaust system. One more question how much do you charge for the mosaleen idler? |
#27
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He had a S 331 with his Stage I kit on it and he has been having problems with the trucks making the power then leaving and having power drop offs and boog problems. I sent him my idler system and with a lot of R&D he found out that the belt is slipping bad and this was messing with the tuning. After putting on the mosaleen idler system it gained 27 rwhp right off away and he didnt even put on a smaller belt, which you should.
Then he put on the mosaleen idler, 5 1/2 inch. water pump pulley, and 1/2 inch. smaller belt, 111.5 lenght. it gained 40 rwhp. it was making 358 rwhp when it came in and made 398 rwhp when left, what is even nicer is the tq gains from 1500 rpm's all the way up to 5000 rpm's. He has sent the dyno runs and info. to me and im trying to down load the winpep reader and his file soon to have info. on my web site. So to do it right you will need the mosaleen S/C idler system , 5 1/2 inch. water pump pulley, 111.5 inch. belt, and SCT tune from Mike Troyer. He will have a complete kit made for everyone. Mike is going to me my exclusive dealer on the Saleen and Harley Davidson trucks. Im sure he will work out a deal if you have different water pump etc. The Mosaleen S/C idler sells for $287.
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2005 S/C #10 Press Car w/ Scenic Roof 3.20 S/C Pulley & 18% overdrive Crank Mosaleen S/C no slip idler system 3:73 gears, Watts link Gen II 14" front brakes, slotted rear rotors Brenspeed 302, 47lb inj, longtubes/ catted H-pipe 570 rwhp 545 rwtq (SAE) 13.5 lbs boost, Afco heat exchanger F-5 Joplin Mo. Tornado surviour 5-22-11. |
#28
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Scott, Ive got MIkes stage 1 kit already so apparently all I need is the dler pulley and water pump....and Im assuming an adjusted tune. Hell I need that anyway, mine hasnt been right from the get go. My truck from the very beggining after installing the stage kit has a huge issue with upon tip in the truck nearly stalls then the power comes in.. did mike convey any problem like that to you withthe truck he was working on? Im almost certain that its from the tune being too rich, when the truck is idling in the garage before i leave out the smell of raw fuel is almost overwhelming. Ive been anxious to get some datalogging done to have it adjusted, but in light of the new found numbers with your pulley...Im thinking i might as well go ahead and throw your idler and water pump on there first. Are we only going to be able to get these from mike or are you also selling them yourself and how soon will they be available to us?
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#29
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The S331 was a 07 and it had the same problem yours has, stumbles as you go into gas. Since the belt is slipping he would see the no.s on the dyno like 390 + hp and 300 miles down the road the stumble and decrease in hp . It was the decrease in boost making the voltage mass air do wierd stuff. The mosaleen S/C idler , 5 1/2 inch. water pump , 111.5 belt made the belt not slip and made a constant to be able to tune and stay constant down the road to.
I dont sell the water pump pulleys , I just sale the Mosaleen idler , you would still have to get the water pump, 111.5 inch. belt , and You could talk to Mike to see if you need to change the tune or if it is the same and the mosaleen idler would be ok with the tune you have. Mike is selling the complete kit or what ever you need. I sale them for $287.00 I think he is selling them for the same price. I have 5 in stock at the moment.
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2005 S/C #10 Press Car w/ Scenic Roof 3.20 S/C Pulley & 18% overdrive Crank Mosaleen S/C no slip idler system 3:73 gears, Watts link Gen II 14" front brakes, slotted rear rotors Brenspeed 302, 47lb inj, longtubes/ catted H-pipe 570 rwhp 545 rwtq (SAE) 13.5 lbs boost, Afco heat exchanger F-5 Joplin Mo. Tornado surviour 5-22-11. |
#30
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What about the guys with the JDM kit? I'm not having near the problems that the guys with the Troyer kits have but my truck does chirp for a few minutes when I start it up. The chirp goes away after a few minutes and I haven't noticed any performance problems. It's just embarassing to have such a nice truck and have it sound like a hunk of junk when you start it up. I saw that you are only selling your S331/Harley idler through Troyer but I have a JDM kit and if I needed tuning I would prefer to stay with JDM. My only problem is that I live in Texas and it would be hard to nail down a mail-order tune if they have used/tested one of your idler pullies before.
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#31
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I have been trying to get JDM to test the mosaleen idler for over 5 months, they are just to busy to test it I guess. Jim Jr. III is suppose to test one on a Saleen Mustang this week, I dont know if he is going to ever test one on the Saleen S 331 truck or not. What Mike found out is with the mosaleen idler , 5 1/2 inch. water pump, 111.5 inch. belt it made the S/C boost more constant which made the tuning a constant. Voltage was much better curve. It gained 40 rwhp.
Do you have a dyno to test your air/fuel ratio? If so you can put the mosaleen idler on and dyno to make sure you air/fuel ratio is ok. 11.7 to 1 My 05 Saleen had JDM tune,over mail, 11.2 to 1 air/fuel ratio after putting on mosaleen idler it jumped 1 1/4 lbs of boost more and air/fuel went to 11.5 to 1, so if you have enough room in your air/fuel ratio you could just buy mosaleen idler and put it on and I gained 54 rwhp and 43 rwtq with JDM's 3.20 S/C pulley and GT dual fuel pumps. Mike Troyer spent over a week testing and tuning and is making 400 rwhp at only 5200 rpm's if he would go to 5800 rpm's he would make 40 more rwhp, but he likes to be very safe. I sale them for $287 shipped to your door. Scott
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2005 S/C #10 Press Car w/ Scenic Roof 3.20 S/C Pulley & 18% overdrive Crank Mosaleen S/C no slip idler system 3:73 gears, Watts link Gen II 14" front brakes, slotted rear rotors Brenspeed 302, 47lb inj, longtubes/ catted H-pipe 570 rwhp 545 rwtq (SAE) 13.5 lbs boost, Afco heat exchanger F-5 Joplin Mo. Tornado surviour 5-22-11. |
#32
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The chirp on start up....same problem that I have....it will only get worse and worse. If you change your belt, it will go away, but eventually come back. Its the idler pulley that is chirping. Try pressing on the idler pulley that is located at about 7-8 oclock with reference to the supercharger pulley. Press on it while the truck is running....the chirping will stop. I have been through three belts and three idler pulleys and it continuously chirps after a few hundred miles.
Sman, When did you get your last tune from Mike? If you were one of the first ones, he has an update for you. My truck bogs when getting into it, but, it does it mostly in 3rd gear. This could be because of the Torque converter locking up. When I had the gatorback belt on.....the bog all but went away....belt slip maybe? Unfortunatly, the gatorback didnt like the aftermarket grooves in the pulley being used. |
#33
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Light02,
I have the JDM kit. Mike hadn't developed his kit yet when I bought mine. I figured it was the idler pulley though. When I installed the JDM kit I had to knock a tab off of it to get the belt on. I took the kit off a couple of months ago and the chirp stopped. After I changed my plugs and put the kit back on it's chirping again. It goes away after a few seconds unless it's cold outside then it takes a little longer. I'm probably going to get mosaleen's idler pulley and sit on it until I have enough $$$ to get tuned at PSI. I just installed my longtubes last weekend and I plan on getting 4.56 gears and e-fans so I'll probably need a re-tune anyway. |
#34
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You will find that, over time, that chirp will take longer and longer to go away. Eventually, it just doesnt go away. The Mosaleen kit should be waiting on me at home in a day or two, but I am traveling with work until Nov 11th. |
#35
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looks like i am going to have to put the idler setup on my list for my next round of mods; LTs, the mosaleen setup, e-fan, and a 3.0. after that i think i am done. don't want to mess with forging the internals...
sman, what headers did you go with? i assume that you are going with the jdm fan kit; that's the only one i know of. you'll really like the 4.56s. that's probably my favorite mod thus far. plan on getting some traction bars if you don't already have them though. your wheels will hop more than the freakin' easter bunny afterwards. shane, did you get your AR headers put on yet? wanted to know how you liked them...
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#36
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WC, I think Mike is still tweaking the whole AR setup still. I wont be purchasing until January. I am probably going to have to end up modifying the tailpipes a bit. I also want to run a dual muffler setup, rather than a DIDO....like I said though...wiating on Mike to get things squared away...and we know how busy he is. I have a Mosaleen idler kit and fan rewire kit waiting on me when I get home on nov 11th.....along with gears...FINALLY! The 3.0, fuel upgrade?, heavy duty torque converter, valvebody, traction bars and possible one piece driveshaft are coming mid next year. I am going to stop in to Troyer on my way to the Saleen nationals. |
#37
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Quote:
If any of you plan to install the headers yourself... Good Luck. It's a nightmare. It took me, my dad (supervising lol), and my brother 2 days to get them on. Pivoting boxed-end ratcheting wenches are a MUST HAVE. We had to loosen the motor mount and jack the motor up to get the passanger side in. Which cost me a new oil pan and gasket because the only good place to lift the motor was to put a floor jack with a wood block under the front of the oil pan. A new oil pan was $160 and the gasket was $40 . Oh... And have fun getting the inner fender liners out too. LOL. |
#38
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Quote:
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#39
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mosaleen
By chance, does anyone have the FORD stock part# for the 5 1/2 water pump pulley. I have put the mic to mine and it looks as if I have one on the truck. Hard to get a measurement due to the fan clutch on the 08. What other sizes were offered larger than the 5 1/2 if any. I know that mine is no smaller. For those that have the electric fans it should be easy to see the part # and make a measurement. There is no sense me buying a pulley if I have the right one and I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO MESS WITH PULLING THE FAN CLUTCH. If I have the right one, I will have to call MIKE back and tell him to keep his pulley
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