New Project "2 Heat Exchangers"

[06SaleenExtreme]

If I get anytime this weekend, I'm looking at seeing if a second Heat Exchanger would fit behind the upper grill. It would be tight, but the stock exchanger may fit there. The exchanger would also get a direct air source
unlike my Aftco being half blocked by the bumper.
My thought would be to take the outlet line from the Aftco to a second pump which would be the inbound to the second heat exchanger, and the outbound would go to the intercooler.
My thought is the second exchanger would increase water capacity, and provide further cooling. The second pump would get the water out the intercooler faster.

Now ill it fit..

Wyatt

[XxBoostinxX]

Hmmmm, this could get very interesting Wyatt. Can't wait to see what you come up with.


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[OneQwkStang]

Are you really having that bad of heat issues?

[06SaleenExtreme]

I took the car to Button Will Raceway a couple weeks ago. The Sessions last for 20 minutes. When you are really on it, it does not take long to get to 175 degrees or higher. The air temp was over 100 degrees that day, and the track was even hotter. The more water you can get in your system the better off you are.
When on on the street at the same air temp, I will run at 125 to 130 degrees.

Thanks,

[Werecow]

Can you mount one horizontally, under the nose, and use a scoop of sorts to redirect air. Maybe even an air-to-air styler one?

[XxBoostinxX]

I wonder if we can put one behind the front grille and than with the hoses go from the reservoir to the front grille, than to the afco, than through the water pump. But with just one pump?


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[06SaleenExtreme]

Interesting thought. I guess You would have to make sure, the Pump sat lower than the outlet from the Aftco going into the inlet of the pump. Is your thought then the output from the pump would go directly to the intercooler?

[XxBoostinxX]

Originally Posted by 06SaleenExtreme

Interesting thought. I guess You would have to make sure, the Pump sat lower than the outlet from the Aftco going into the inlet of the pump. Is your thought then the output from the pump would go directly to the intercooler?

Pretty much everything stays the same as it is and you just add the stock HE in the grille. Use the stock hoses to go to the grille HE and the outlet to the afco, since the afco's inlet is on the passenger side with its outlet that's going to the water pump.


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[mosaleen]

Thats what I did with my 2000 Saleen, like the Grand Nationals... I put 2nd heat exchanger just under the space between the radiator and block horizontal built brackets to mount. took hose from pump to it (passanger side first) then out other side with hose to front heat exchanger behind bumper and left the hose that was hooked up to other side. Did great.

[XxBoostinxX]

Originally Posted by mosaleen

Thats what I did with my 2000 Saleen, like the Grand Nationals... I put 2nd heat exchanger just under the space between the radiator and block horizontal built brackets to mount. took hose from pump to it (passanger side first) then out other side with hose to front heat exchanger behind bumper and left the hose that was hooked up to other side. Did great.

I wonder if it would cool the water any more than it already does though?


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[06SaleenExtreme]

Hey Scott,

Did you record the temp difference with the second H/E?

Thanks

[Jason @ 281m]

Food for thought,....we are working on a tripple pass HE. Once we get our prototype done, we will show you guys some pictures.

[Werecow]

Triple pass aye? Is there any studies that show the difference in heat reduction with single pass vs double or triple pass?

[06SaleenExtreme]

Steda has one w/ dual fans. Steda claims 18% temp drop from closet competition. Here is the link to the site:

http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-m...exchanger.html

[Werecow]

Yeah I have read claims on better heat dispertion, but I have also read that the single pass actually works as just as well and the big issue is the design/quality of the intercooler. I have never seen any hard data on it either way.

[Jason @ 281m]

Originally Posted by Werecow

Triple pass aye? Is there any studies that show the difference in heat reduction with single pass vs double or triple pass?

I'm sure there is. Anyone who's raced or built race cars knows a multipass core disapates more heat. Heck on my Saleen I had Ron Davis build our custom designed radiator into a double pass and the size of the core is approx 3'x2.5'x4" at a cost of nearly $1500.

We won't release any new part without testing it's thermal benefits. I know the company that makes the Steeda one, they are actually a great company ironically enough.

[Werecow]

I understand what you are saying Jason, but it seems like you could get an 18% reduction just by increasing the size of the intercooler, going to a bar-fin design, or even increasing the air flow through it with bigger fans. I would have thought all three would net more than 18%. In the past, I spoke to Joe Chicane - may he rest in peace - and he wanted to use my 01 to mock a 3-pass radiator for my car and we discussed the issue a bit then. unfortunately, we never got to follow up on that. I am not doubting you at all. It would be nice to see data to back the numbers of these claims is all.

[Jason @ 281m]

Originally Posted by Werecow

I understand what you are saying Jason, but it seems like you could get an 18% reduction just by increasing the size of the intercooler, going to a bar-fin design, or even increasing the air flow through it with bigger fans. I would have thought all three would net more than 18%. In the past, I spoke to Joe Chicane - may he rest in peace - and he wanted to use my 01 to mock a 3-pass radiator for my car and we discussed the issue a bit then. unfortunately, we never got to follow up on that. I am not doubting you at all. It would be nice to see data to back the numbers of these claims is all.

Werecow,

Bigger fans help to a point...however the fans do one major job which is cool the intercooler at low speeds which is at a stop to 15mph. Post that in a straight line theyre benefit is very minimal. The second benefit which is small would be in heavy cornering by assisting in getting more concentrated air into the HE. The 10" SPAL fans do a great job now and may stay the same depending on what we can fit inbetween the frame or cattycorner.

The "bar fin" design you refer to is a "B" roll fin...its the design of how the fin is shaped. One manufacture we might work with uses this technique and insist that it has better cooling properties. We want to prove that with hard data as we work on designing ours.

We want more than 18% if we can get it. We dont "think" theres room for improvement on the "intercooler" but we are going to look into that as well. Joe was a great innovator, and many projects he shared with everyone will be left to those who dare push the envolope to build. We hope to carry the torch alongside where he left off. Joe always told me, "if you create a part to fix a problem, you will never be poor"... Personally, I dont think he meant money.

[Char259]

Have you thought about a trunk mount reservoir, you could fill with alot more fluid and add ice if desired. Seems like a better idea then a bunch of heat exchangers

[06SaleenExtreme]

That is a great point, the trunk mounted tank will hold allot more water, thus keeping the IC temp down. What I don't know is for how long when running really hard.
One the water is hot though, it will take longer to cool as well. Also with the fans at high speed, some have stated they actually help block the air going into the heat exchanger. Also at high speed the air will want to go around the heat exchanger. It would be great to have a way of an air dam sealing around the heat exchanger so it has to go through it, and not around it.
Some good thoughts are coming out of this.

[Jason @ 281m]

Originally Posted by 06SaleenExtreme

That is a great point, the trunk mounted tank will hold allot more water, thus keeping the IC temp down. What I don't know is for how long when running really hard.
One the water is hot though, it will take longer to cool as well. Also with the fans at high speed, some have stated they actually help block the air going into the heat exchanger. Also at high speed the air will want to go around the heat exchanger. It would be great to have a way of an air dam sealing around the heat exchanger so it has to go through it, and not around it.
Some good thoughts are coming out of this.

Wyatt, a shroud would be AWESOME! We have talked about that in the last few weeks. Idealy it would be made out of blown molded plastic, but who's got 50k to develop that. We have thought about making an aluminum one which should be pretty easy with the fab equipment we have. A trunk mounted resevoir is what most track cars have, and they are usually HUGE. Not a bad idea, but find someone willing to spend the money to build and install one...

[XxBoostinxX]

Originally Posted by Char259

Have you thought about a trunk mount reservoir, you could fill with alot more fluid and add ice if desired. Seems like a better idea then a bunch of heat exchangers

http://dadscustomintercoolertank.com/


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[06SaleenExtreme]

Very Nice looking tanks. Trunk mounted tank where the spare goes.

[06SaleenExtreme]

Hey Scott,

These guys on this site are doing what you suggested.

Wyatt

http://www.modularfords.com/threads/...tercooler-tank

[Werecow]

Originally Posted by Jason @ 281m

Wyatt, a shroud would be AWESOME! We have talked about that in the last few weeks. Idealy it would be made out of blown molded plastic, but who's got 50k to develop that. We have thought about making an aluminum one which should be pretty easy with the fab equipment we have. A trunk mounted resevoir is what most track cars have, and they are usually HUGE. Not a bad idea, but find someone willing to spend the money to build and install one...

Doesn't Saleen have the modern nylon plastic molding machine - or whatever the hell it is called? They mentioned it in the article on the SMS 25th Anniversary car. I think they used it to make the cold air inlet tube. Maybe you could convince them to make them...lol

[Jason @ 281m]

Originally Posted by Werecow

Doesn't Saleen have the modern nylon plastic molding machine - or whatever the hell it is called? They mentioned it in the article on the SMS 25th Anniversary car. I think they used it to make the cold air inlet tube. Maybe you could convince them to make them...lol

I don't think it's a matter of convincing them as it is demand isn't really there.

[Werecow]

Probably not, but it if it helps, maybe the Saleens should have them...

[Jason @ 281m]

Originally Posted by Werecow

Probably not, but it if it helps, maybe the Saleens should have them...

Saleen used to offer a ABS plastic shroud a while back, I wonder if they still exist.