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2005-2009 Saleen Mustang For all S281, S302, H281 and H302 models based on the Ford S-197 Mustang platform, with the exception of the S302 PJ (see below). Be sure to specify year, model and equipment if asking for help.

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  #51  
Old 10-22-2012
fungirl fungirl is offline
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Ok, so replacing the crank position sensor didn't work. After driving a couple hours Friday, she coughed, sputtered and then died while I was pulling into a gas station. Took her back to the shop AGAIN over the weekend. There happened to be a 2006 427 Roush in there at the same time & having the same stalling issue as me. Luckily the Roush was throwing codes and also having more of a consistent problem than mine. What they figured out for the Roush is that there are all these small gold pins in the PCM computer where the wiring harness plugs in and they were very touchy. So when the car was having issues, they could just tap on the PCM and all of a sudden it would start right up again. So for the Roush & my car too, they cleaned out all the dust in & around the plug, PCM pins, & surrounding areas with an air compressor. We're hoping it works. If not, next time she stalls, I'm going to try tapping on the PCM to see if she fires right up. At least then I could narrow this issue down to that one thing. Keeping my fingers crossed!
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  #52  
Old 10-22-2012
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Wish I'd seen this thread before the Pulley thread.

Is your car @ AED near Sacramento? I would find it hard to believe that Drew or Shaun would put 80# injectors in your setup. Those guys are top notch. Hope it gets sorted out for you.
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  #53  
Old 10-22-2012
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Wow, not sure I am comfortable with your problem being a loose connection... But I guess we will see... If it happens again I would take it to another place and have it looked at...
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  #54  
Old 10-22-2012
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Quote:
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Wow, not sure I am comfortable with your problem being a loose connection... But I guess we will see... If it happens again I would take it to another place and have it looked at...
Yeah, it probably isn't. But I was there for another issue and then picking it up on a Sunday when they're normally closed. So it was just a last minute "try it and see" since I was leaving. It doesn't hurt to try. I'll have to schedule an appt to fix it later.
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  #55  
Old 10-22-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightstalker View Post
Wish I'd seen this thread before the Pulley thread.

Is your car @ AED near Sacramento? I would find it hard to believe that Drew or Shaun would put 80# injectors in your setup. Those guys are top notch. Hope it gets sorted out for you.
Yes, they have been great. I had told them my plan was to get a new, faster motor in the future after I wear this one out. And for now was just trying to get to 500hp. So it was planning for the future.

I still don't understand how I could have no problems for over a year with this setup. Maybe I'll try that resetting the computer thing that 281 suggested (disconnect battery and turn on headlights).
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  #56  
Old 10-22-2012
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My husband told me that my description here is slightly off. He said the Roush just had a loose connection at the plug so when they wiggled the plug (not tapping on the PCM), everything started working properly again.
So for mine they just cleaned the connection and made sure it was tight. It wasn't meant to be the fix; just a last minute, quick "try it and see" since I was leaving.

This stalling at or near idle issue has been really intermittent. I didn't have any problems for more than a year after the parts were installed July 2011. Just started last month.


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  #57  
Old 10-23-2012
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It is an odd situation for sure, I do agree that 80 LB injectors are pretty large for you set up but if it ran fine for a year that way, then it is likely not the problem. I tend to think your having an issue with a sensor or a loose connection. The crank sensor is often the mostly likely culprit but my no means the only possiblity. The confusing part is the lack of some sort of trouble code. Which may indicate a loose connection rather than a sensor issue. Although, since whatever it is kills the engine in pretty short order it may not be tripping a code. I would really need to spend some time with the car, and I am assuming they have checked the ground on your battery and the usual loose wire culprits that can cause this to happen. Since you picked it up has the problem been about the same as it was before or is it doing it less frequently but still doing it occasionally? I wish I could offer you more sound advice on th ebest course of action. One last question do you recall anything unusual occuring before the condition began to surface? Did you have the engine detailed? Did you drive through deep water or did you have some service on your car within a few weeks of the first instance? Anything that might be a source of the issue?
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  #58  
Old 10-23-2012
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Does the exhaust smoke when you are having the issue? If so, what color?
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  #59  
Old 10-23-2012
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Since I picked it up, it has happened twice. You know, I do remember one time seeing smoke before this all started. But I have never seen any since then. I was WOT passing on the freeway and saw a bunch of smoke from the tailpipes (don't remember the color...whitish-grey)? I figured it was just because I usually drive her pretty easy & maybe there was buildup burning off? However, this stalling issue did start after that. Everytime this has happened, it has been pretty hot outside, or else I've been driving for a long time. Now that I remember, I should mention the smoke thing to the shop. Maybe it's related.

9/7 ~ Rough start & then stalled, 100+ outside
9/13 ~ Rough start & then stalled, 100+
9/13 ~ (Replace fuel rail pressure sensor)
9/14 ~ Stalled when taking off from stop, 106+
9/16 ~ Stalled when taking off from stop, high 90's
9/19 ~ Stalled while sitting @ idle in drive through, high 90's
10/10 ~ (Replace crank position sensor & fuel filter)
10/19 ~ Stalled when taking off from stop, high 90's
10/21 ~ (Check & clean PCM connection)
11/4 ~ Rough start & then stalled, high 70's (heat obviously isn't an issue; got some data logs which showed very low fuel pressure at rail)
11/10 ~ (PCM reset)
12/7 ~ Stalled while accelerating onto freeway; was already in 3rd gear! 1st time this has happened while NOT @ at idle.
12/7 ~ Later in the day, perfect start but then stalled, then wouldn't run normally for 2.5 hours. Everything today was different than before: Sometimes it would start smooth but RPM's would slowly increase to idle and then stall immediately after reaching idle. Sometimes it would start perfectly, but then RPM's would slowly & smoothly decrease until stalled. 1st time it's done this twice in same day. 1st time it's stalled after a perfect start. 1st time RPM's have smoothly increased and/or decreased but then still stalled afterwards.
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  #60  
Old 10-23-2012
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White smoke usually means there is coolant in the combustion chamber. Have you been losing coolant? Remove your oil filler cap and check for creamy sludge. Have the spark plugs inspected.
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  #61  
Old 10-30-2012
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So whatt new witht the car is it still stalling? Is the issue resolved?
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  #62  
Old 10-30-2012
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I'm holding my breath. It hasn't happened since the 19th and has been running fine. It has been really cool outside and all the times it has happened has been when it's hot. I did check the coolant and under the oil cap. Both are fine. Haven't checked the plugs yet. Talked to Drew about the smoke thing. He said it's most likely carbon build up in the cats, since I drive so easy most of the time. They see it on the dyno all the time. Plus I only saw smoke that one time & I've been WOT before and after that.
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  #63  
Old 10-30-2012
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Well that's good news lets hope it continues!
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  #64  
Old 10-30-2012
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So did you replace the altenator due the possibility of noisey diodes that might affect the crank position sensor? I have heard this to be an issue with the cam postion sensor, where the noisey diodes cause rough idle and missing... but not the crank shaft.
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  #65  
Old 10-30-2012
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No, the alternator was a whole separate issue (although ironic that it failed a week after this stalling at idle thing started). I think the summer heat really took a toll on my 96k mile car! Anyway, my alternator failed after driving 8 hours towards the Saleen Headquarters Show. It was over 106 degrees outside. Then it failed again a few weeks later because a wire was shorting it out. Here's the posts related to that whole ordeal.

Steve Saleen and SOEC present the Saleen Show -- Sept. 15, 2012
Charging Problems Again.....

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  #66  
Old 10-31-2012
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Glad to hear it's not an internal failure. Although with your ambition for a better motor you may have had mixed feelings on that.
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  #67  
Old 10-31-2012
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I like where you going with that Werecow because I think what ever the problem is, it is intermittent related to heat. It could have been the alternator going out which can create, electronic Noise in the wiring that can confuse or mess up signal processing as you said. I guess we will have to wait for another long drive! Mean while our fingers are crossed that maybe the issue has been addressed? I will reiterate with those super size injectors any slight anomoly in injector signal will likely result in idle issues that might not be as obvious in smaller ones! Just think about the difference between a firehose and a gardenhose in terms of changes in flow dynamics!
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  #68  
Old 11-09-2012
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Haha, okay another week without comment I take it no issues?
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  #69  
Old 11-10-2012
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Just happened again on the 4th. I'm keeping a log on post #59 above. I drove a couple blocks to the store and was only there 10 minutes. It was pretty cool outside, so now I don't think heat is an issue. When I started the car, she ran super rough at idle and then died. But this time I was finally able to get several data logs of the issue with my SCT. Shaun read them & said it's fuel pressure related, and it's acting as if it's picking up air instead of fuel in the tank. He said all the logs show very low fuel pressure at the fuel rail. When the fuel pressure is extremely low during startup, fuel pump duty cycle is high; when the fuel pressure is normal, fuel pump duty cycle is normal. He isn't sure what's causing the problem, but said it's not tune related. Then he listed a few possibilities, but said it's hard to say what's causing it; and it could be a pain to figure it out: bad/loose wiring to the sensor, bad FRPV in the tank, or...?

So I guess I'll take it to a local mechanic to check some of this stuff. Plus I still need to do the disconnect battery-turn on headlights thing.
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  #70  
Old 11-10-2012
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That is interesting, you have the dual fuel pumps installed fro the GT-500? I wonder if one of the pumps is having an issue? I wonder if the alternator going bad did something to your sensor. I would do your reset on the car and see if that helps!
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  #71  
Old 11-12-2012
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When was the last time you changed your fuel filter?
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  #72  
Old 11-12-2012
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Did the reset on Saturday, but haven't driven it yet. After the reset, I definitely noticed a difference with the idle. It runs much smoother, less hiccups and seems to have better throttle response. We'll see after I drive it today.

Changed the fuel filter on 10/10.
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  #73  
Old 11-13-2012
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Albeit impossible with newer cars, it almost sounds like someone is putting ping pong balls in your fuel tank.
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  #74  
Old 11-13-2012
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Quote:
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Albeit impossible with newer cars, it almost sounds like someone is putting ping pong balls in your fuel tank.
LOL, you're kidding right?

So the PCM reset thing is awesome! (Thanks 281 :)) She is definitely running more smoothly at idle. I hear an occasional hiccup, but not nearly as bad as before. And when I take off driving, there is no sputtering like before. Plus the throttle response seems to be much better. Keeping my fingers crossed that this will also cure the stalling at idle thing; but it's probably a separate issue. We'll see.
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  #75  
Old 11-14-2012
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My car has intermittent idle/start up problems just like you described only difference is when its cold outside and a cold start up. Believe it or not it all started with I installed valve cover breathers on both pass and drive side of the car. Car refused to idle and stalled 10 seconds after start up. My local dyno shop suggested taking them off and closing the system again, once I did the car started/idled fine. Also cleaned the throttle body so i could eat off it and the car did much better. However its still not happy when it's started on a cold (70 degrees or less) day. Hick ups and sputters at idle for a min then catches it self and idles much better.
I had brenspeed increase the rpm at idle and that helped it out also leaned it on idle. Both of these changes helped a lot with cold start up. When im at a local car show every once in a while when i go to drive away it does fine, ill stop and go again and it stumbles and sputters for about 3 seconds and then runs like a champ. The car never throws any codes so there's no telling what the issue is. When i had my shop dyno it he said everything is spot on and couldn't see anything wrong with the car when he data logged it, however the car was up to temp at the time. The car is stored at a local garage we rent out and the battery is disconnected every time we park it, the car can sit for a 2-3 weeks at a time before we use it again...weekend warrior now.
Replaced the TPS and MAF sensors but problem still occurred..this was before we figured out it was the open PCV system causing most of the idle issues.
I forget what my dyno guy said but the cars short term and long term (i think) memory have been turned off. He said this is very commonly done on supercharged cars.
The only thing i have never tried was disconnecting battery and turning the headlights on to drain 100% any power left in the car. Ill give that a try next time i go to the car and see if it changes anything.
Is it possible its the crank sensor, installing the super we of course were moving stuff around these sensors almost the whole time, also another side note the connections on these cars are crazy. The passenger side foot well had some corrosion on the gold connection ends, we cleaned them and it fixed an issue i was having with my windows, when i shut the door the window wouldnt go up the last 1/4" when the door is shut... ill check the connections at the PCM as well...again bumped prolly once or twice when installing the super.
Had GT500 pumps in about 3 months before the super and had no issues. We had the 4" pulley for about 2 weeks before swapping to the 3.4" then the issues began..but again was mostly because of the closed PCV system. Plugs were installed brand new with the super as well. Car has about 1,000 miles with the super on it now, 33,000 total miles.
Over all the car sounds/runs like a champ, just an occasional problem here and there at cold start up but that's what happens when we modify lol...

Last edited by Mustang_06gt; 11-14-2012 at 11:04 AM.
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  #76  
Old 11-25-2012
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You should definitely do the PCM reset (battery / headlights thing). Directions are in post #29. Since I have done that, my car hasn’t had the cold start issue. I noticed a difference immediately (no hiccups when warming up, and no sputtering during the first few blocks of driving).

However one thing has been slowly creeping up again. After cold start, I am starting to hear slight, occasional hiccups while she’s idling in the garage. But she still runs great when I take off driving. Try it out and let us know how it works for you.

On a side note, my car hasn't had the issue with stalling @ idle (and/or after a super rough start) for 3 weeks now. The longest she's gone without this issue is 1 month, so I'm still keeping my fingers crossed!
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  #77  
Old 11-25-2012
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At least we all have the exact same issue so hopefully it isn't anything major. I'll be trying the reset tonight as well.
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  #78  
Old 11-26-2012
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It's common for a blown car to run rough when it's cold. I don't know how many out there remember the manual choke but cars would run a bit rough but would mellow out. When modding a car there is always some give and take.
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  #79  
Old 12-07-2012
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My luck has run out and I'm finally towing her to the shop. For the first time, she stalled today as I was getting on the freeway. I was already in 3rd gear and accelerating. Got her started after an hour. But then later in the day she won't stay running at idle. I'll post again after the shop checks her out.
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Old 12-08-2012
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Most unfortunate I hope they can resolve this for u! It seems like an intermittent problem those are a huge pain to diagnose.
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Old 12-08-2012
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Quote:
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Most unfortunate I hope they can resolve this for u! It seems like an intermittent problem those are a huge pain to diagnose.
+1. Normally these issues are nothing more than scrubbing the throttle body, adding an oil catch can and clean spark plugs.I hope they cam figure it out by March, since the cold months suck for traction anyway.
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Old 12-08-2012
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+1. Normally these issues are nothing more than scrubbing the throttle body, adding an oil catch can and clean spark plugs.I hope they cam figure it out by March, since the cold months suck for traction anyway.
I hope they can figure it out this week since she is my daily driver :)

I updated my timeline post #59 above. Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I'll give them all to the shop.
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  #83  
Old 12-12-2012
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I am hopeful that my local mechanic found the problem. He was able to read codes 191 & 1233 (even though my check engine light hasn't been on). I had already seen code 191 with my SCT X3 a while ago and replaced the fuel rail pressure sensor. However we hadn't seen code 1233. He said it has something to do with the fuel pressure driver module (FPDM). So he checked the wires in the trunk and found some really loose connections. He secured those.

He also noticed that the wire to the fuel pump fuse holder (just outside the fuse panel box under the hood) was extremely hot. When he took the cover off, he also saw it arcing. Plus the fuse itself was really loose and when he wiggled the wire & holder, he could hear the fuel pumps kicking on and off. So he cut the whole thing out and replaced it with a thicker wire, new holder, and fuse.

He is pretty sure the issue was a combination of the above, mostly the arcing fuse holder for the pumps. So we’ll know for sure after I drive around for a while. So far the longest I’ve gone without this issue is 5 weeks. So if she can stay running longer than that, I’ll assume it is finally fixed. Keeping my fingers crossed!
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  #84  
Old 12-12-2012
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That actually does sound very likely like it was the problem, intermitent electrical issue. I think the fuel pumps were mentioned before! Lets all hope that does it, it really sounds like that was a main issue! Good Mechanic to find all that! Had a deal like that in my dads vette ended up being the main electrical connection! Let us hope thats it!!!
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Old 12-12-2012
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That sounds very promising. Kudos to the mechanic for a thorough diagnostic!
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  #86  
Old 12-12-2012
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  #87  
Old 03-10-2013
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Angry The monster is in my car :(

It's my turn.... It only happen after 15-20 mins of driving around town. When I am at a stop, it can't idle. I let it sit for a couple of minutes and it starts up fine with no problems.

Today(3/10/2013), I went for cruise with a friend. It happen again after driving for 15 mins the engine just shut off. Luckily I was in a parking lot waiting for my friend, I took out my key, and I let my car sit. After a quick detailing my car (25 mins), It started fine and the idle was OK. We went on a small cruise around town, in case the car died. We were driving around town for an hour without any incident. hmmm. Idle was fine. I will try the remedies above over the weekend.


Please post anymore solutions or recommendations.
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(6/2005) Purchased 05 Saleen #1004 Windveil Blue from Galpin (9/2006) 14" Saleen Brakes, (7/2007) 475hp Supercharger, Guages, Watts Link Suspension, (10/2007) Rear Slotted Rotors, (2/2008) 19" TSW Wheels (Hypersilver), (1/2009) Super Shaker. (4/2012) Back to 20" Saleen Wheels


(10/2007 Morning) 414 RWHP 403 RWTQ w/ Stock Saleen SC Tune w/o Super Shaker (Sold 2/11/2018)

01 Saleen #629 (NA) True Blue (Sold 6/15/07)

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  #88  
Old 03-11-2013
Werecow Werecow is offline
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You have a little over a month to get that thing running right... I would do the standard, easy stuff first. cleaning the throttle body, IAC, etc. If you have reoiled the air filter, make sure the MAF is clean. Good luck and keep us posted.
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  #89  
Old 03-12-2013
fungirl fungirl is offline
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Sorry to hear this is happening to you. The only way we figured mine out was because it finally stalled while at the shop so my mechanic could start testing wires. I dealt with this for three months so I hope you figure it out much sooner than that! As stated above, my issue ended up being the the fusible link wire for my fuel pumps. Replaced a small section of the wire including the fuse and haven't had any issues since then. Good luck!
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  #90  
Old 05-11-2013
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Ponypinoy Ponypinoy is offline
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Default Update 5/11/2013

UPDATE ON MY CAR

Today, John Smith (Motordude) offered to help me try to figure out the problem with my car, since he installed his super shaker. When we took it apart, this how it looked.

23K Miles after I had the super shaker installed



Now, with John's Help



John is an awesome friend and awesome SOEC member.

I know he doesn't post....YOU ROCK MOTORDUDE

I just want to THANK EVERYONE who gave recommendations on this site......

SOEC is an awesome group!!!
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(6/2005) Purchased 05 Saleen #1004 Windveil Blue from Galpin (9/2006) 14" Saleen Brakes, (7/2007) 475hp Supercharger, Guages, Watts Link Suspension, (10/2007) Rear Slotted Rotors, (2/2008) 19" TSW Wheels (Hypersilver), (1/2009) Super Shaker. (4/2012) Back to 20" Saleen Wheels


(10/2007 Morning) 414 RWHP 403 RWTQ w/ Stock Saleen SC Tune w/o Super Shaker (Sold 2/11/2018)

01 Saleen #629 (NA) True Blue (Sold 6/15/07)

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SOEC#2129

Quick Video http://youtu.be/gkiCgwzJTFE
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  #91  
Old 05-12-2013
Werecow Werecow is offline
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So it works now? What was the actual issue, just needed cleaning?
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  #92  
Old 05-13-2013
fungirl fungirl is offline
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Wow, that looks so much better! Hope it solved the issue.
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  #93  
Old 10-09-2013
KCCHILDS KCCHILDS is offline
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Sorry to bring up a semi old thread, but starting to have these same issues. I always let my cars idle for several minutes before driving. But my issues are, I'll drive it from my house to the car wash about 5 minutes away. While in the wash, I'll turn the car off because I am also having the half tank issues. When the wash is done, I'll crank it, let it run for a minute, then start to pull out. It idles rough and doesn't want to move. If I give it throttle, it chokes and sputters like it wants to die, but never does. Clears its throat and hauls ****. Also, took the car to the movie theater about 15 minutes away. After the movie, so almost 2 hours, it had the same issue. Also getting the puffs of smoke while this is happening! Pretty embarrassing to have such an amazing looking and sounding car, sputtering around around in front of all the movie patrons leaving the theater. I'm back overseas and there is no one that can drive the car. I could get someone to try the disconnect/headlight trick, but I wouldn't be able to comment on it til March 2014. :(

Also the half tank issue. It says full, but at half tank it starts to drop to empty and dies. Put fuel in (I started carrying a 1.5 gallon tank in the trunk for such issue) and it fires right back up. Pull the rear seat and check passenger side tank, full. Replaced the sending unit, $225 later, still same issue.

Also the horn and super charger dash pod are intermittent. When I first got home, there was no horn, but dash pod worked. A week later, horn started working and dash pod was temperamental.

There's also a few lights, like turn signal or running light not working, but could just be burnt bulbs.

Car has brand new motor. Fresh charger overhaul and clean, new plugs, etc. I put 1200 miles on it while home, but most was low mph back road or around town driving. Put it on the interstate and got up to higher rpms and mph a hand full of times. My chrome tips are pretty black, and I know I cleaned them with a magic eraser before the engine overhaul. It has a break-in tune on it and running rich. Car will be fully dyno tuned within the next couple weeks. I'll see if dyno guy can do the disconnect trick while he's figuring out all the other bugs. But I will also forward him this thread for ideas. Any other ideas here that might be the issue? Thanks in advance.
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  #94  
Old 10-09-2013
hennie hennie is offline
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Check for airleaks, ( post MAF)
check the fuelrail pressure sensor, they tend to fail.
clean all ground points around the car.

did you do the wire upgrade for the fuelpump modules in the rear?, If you haven't, please do that to stay safe and if you have done the upgrade, check the connections.

Hennie
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  #95  
Old 10-09-2013
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I would also check battery and alternator. The stock alternators fail a lot and can cause all kinds of funky electrical problems. When an alternator fails it can take the battery with it.
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Old 10-09-2013
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yes the alternator is also a good suspect, check if you battery has been overheated as well.
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  #97  
Old 10-09-2013
KCCHILDS KCCHILDS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hennie View Post
Check for airleaks, ( post MAF)
check the fuelrail pressure sensor, they tend to fail.
clean all ground points around the car.

did you do the wire upgrade for the fuelpump modules in the rear?, If you haven't, please do that to stay safe and if you have done the upgrade, check the connections.

Hennie
281 built the car, and it was fresh delivered a few weeks ago when I got home for R&R. I have no idea if that stuff was done. We did the GT500 fuel pump and 39# injector upgrades, along with a ton of other stuff. Anything posted will be emailed to Dan to hopefully help him narrow things down, since so many others have had the same issues. Thanks for the ideas!
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  #98  
Old 10-09-2013
KCCHILDS KCCHILDS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seelye76 View Post
I would also check battery and alternator. The stock alternators fail a lot and can cause all kinds of funky electrical problems. When an alternator fails it can take the battery with it.
Battery has been relocated to the trunk and is brand new. When I first got home, I was only playing with the stereo for a couple minutes when the battery died. Jumped it off and didn't have a single crank issue like a weak battery the whole 3 weeks I was home. I would think with such a weak jump on a dead battery, if the alternator was bad it would have died again?
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  #99  
Old 10-09-2013
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Jason @ 281m Jason @ 281m is offline
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Your sputtering issue screams tune. When your dyno gets the car have him check the plugs prior to doing the dyno. If your gauge is intermittantly working, check the sending unit wires and the wiring on the back of the gauges. They have a tendancy to work loose, otherwise you most likely have a bad sending unit.
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  #100  
Old 10-09-2013
KCCHILDS KCCHILDS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason @ 281m View Post
Your sputtering issue screams tune. When your dyno gets the car have him check the plugs prior to doing the dyno. If your gauge is intermittantly working, check the sending unit wires and the wiring on the back of the gauges. They have a tendancy to work loose, otherwise you most likely have a bad sending unit.
Will do. Sounds easy enough?!?! Forwarding the thread now.
Whatever he finds I'll make sure to post here as well.
Thanks again!
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