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1999-2004 Saleen Mustang For the SN-95 New Edge platform. Be sure to specify year, model and equipment if asking for help. |
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#1
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Help: Series II supercharger?
Hello,
I am not a Saleen owner yet but do have a fun street/autox '04 GT. I purchased a used Series II kit to install on it and have a whole bunch of questions and was wondering if anybody here knowledgeable with these setups can help or at least point me somewhere else. Right now I could use help with the following questions. I plan to tear down the assembly to refinish the manifold and check out the blower. Are there any tips to determine the health of the M90 unit? Are there any tips/mods I should perform while I have it apart? I don't have the money for the upgraded intercooler but did see a heatshield/diverter plate that is supposed to force boost thru the stock cooler on ebay. Is this worthwhile for ~$200? How about the mosaleen pulley? I saw some mixed reviews. How about the stock heat exchanger? Mine looks good but has no fans? Should I simply use it and get some fans? Lastly, it came with a throttle cable but no bracket or cruise cable. Any idea what to do here? I saw 96-98 cobra bracket will work. Will I be able to use my '04 crusie cable or get a new one? Sorry if I am in the wrong place, I'm having trouble finding other forums and figured if any, the Saleen forums would have people with the best experiences. |
#2
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I first installed a used Series I on my car, and later upgraded the blower unit to a Series IV. You will be happy with the change!
1. Maybe change the oil while it is off. Check for slop/play in the nose. There are new gasket kits for sale on ebay. Clean the intercooler while it is apart. 2.I have a heatshield on my car, they are made by Trikpony on here. Definitely helps with intake air temps. Better intercooler would be great, but they are $700 ish. 3.MoSaleen (also on here) is a must. Greatly reduces belt slip. Also without it your belt will cut into the radiator hose (look for the small cut where the belt would hit) My kit did not have fans. I drove my car for 2 years without them. I tried not to get stuck in traffic. I found some on ebay. Watch here and ebay for them. 4.Can't speak about the throttle cable, as my kit was swapped side by side with the donor car. 5. My stock cruise cable did not work...I tucked it and have not had cruise control since install. Only miss it on long trips. Not a deal breaker to me. Search my screen name for my install thread. Good luck Rod
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2001 Saleen S281-SC Oxford White #01-0720 Fully Forged Rebuild 6/14 Series IV w/ pulley boys 2.8 pulley Trikpony Intercooler Heatshield Mosaleen Idler Pulley 42# injectors Supercar fuel pump w/ wiring mod 90mm MAF 75mm Throttle Body NGK Tr6 BBK O/R X-Pipe 13" Cobra front brakes MGW shifter 7" DVD player 376hp/395tq Series I gone!! Former-2000 Contour SVT T3/T4 TURBO-315 fwhp! |
#3
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Thanks for the reply.
I plan to change the oil. I have a gasket kit on order. Turning the pulley by hand feels like there are no issues. No noise or felt notchy-ness. If I cover the TB and spin the pulley by hand I can feel it lightly sucking, I suppose that's good. I'll definitely consider the heatshield but will wait till I get the thing apart. My setup came with an extra intercooler so for all I know, there is a better cooler in the manifold. I'll also grab a mosaleen idler. I will probably try to find some fans. I autox the car and think that after a minute of on and off heavy throttle, my coolant will be hot. Perhaps I can rig up an auxiliary setup to power the pump and fans when the car is off to cool it down between runs. I'll figure out what to do for a cable once installed. I have the 30# injectors that came with the kit but think I might get 42# just to have room if needed. |
#4
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Fans/Heat Exchanger
These are the fans that you will need. They are not pricey.http://www.a1electric.com/spal/faninfo.htm.
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#5
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Quote:
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#6
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I hope to start tearing the unit down this weekend. Hopefully everything will look fine. I'll plan on an oil change too just to baseline the schedule and look for crap in the oil in there now.
I've ordered a bunch of stuff. Gasket kit I bought 40# injectors and a Walbro TU229HP pump, both overkill for now but room to grow. The blower has a 2.8" pulley. Any idea what I should expect for boost? |
#7
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CJK440: http://www.a1electric.com/Merchant2/..._Code=30100291.
Hope this helps/CR |
#8
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Quote:
I also have a Mosaleen idler on its way too. I am looking forward to the spring!! |
#9
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How about oil?
The blower is off so I can flip it over to drain instead of sucking it out. What do I need for oil? I tried searching but never found concrete answers. It appears most OEM M90's take 6-7oz of oil. Specifically Nye 605 which I believe is the same as GM 12345982. If I get 2 4oz bottles of GM 12345982 (~$8ea) am I good to go? Any plug gaskets that need to be changed etc? |
#10
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2.8 pulley should give you 10-11# of boost.
no gasket on filler plug. Look at the manufacturers or ebay for oil(Lysholm/Whipple). I changed mine but can't remember where I bought it.
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2001 Saleen S281-SC Oxford White #01-0720 Fully Forged Rebuild 6/14 Series IV w/ pulley boys 2.8 pulley Trikpony Intercooler Heatshield Mosaleen Idler Pulley 42# injectors Supercar fuel pump w/ wiring mod 90mm MAF 75mm Throttle Body NGK Tr6 BBK O/R X-Pipe 13" Cobra front brakes MGW shifter 7" DVD player 376hp/395tq Series I gone!! Former-2000 Contour SVT T3/T4 TURBO-315 fwhp! |
#11
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I finally got the unit apart. I noticed plastic intake that goes between the TB and the Eaton is split and needs to be re-glued. I'm guessing the halves are bonded at the factory and somebody gooped it up with another epoxy that failed.
I also flipped over the blower and found some of the rotor coating missing. In some areas it was just chipped but one entire rotor lobe had no coating. I am wondering if I should send it out for a piece of mind refresh and re-coat.... Who's recommended to rebuild these? |
#12
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Eaton supercharger.
CJK/440:http://www.embreemachine.com/Eaton_Price_List.html.
Google Eaton supercharger Rebuild for other companies./CR |
#13
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Quote:
Any of these I should strongly consider or perhaps somebody I am missing? This setup is going to be a little more expensive than I planned when all is said done. |
#14
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CJK440, after sending my blower out to a company for a complete rebuild, I had to remove it and send it out again because I did not get what I wanted, or thought I was paying for. $1000 mistake.
100 miles after the rebuild I started having problems with leaking at one of the split lines. Come to find out that they did not rebuild the gear drive assembly or replace the rear case bearings. All they did was open up the blower, re-greased he rear bearings and replaced the snout bearings. Basically, I feel that I was ripped off because my local speed shop does those bench repairs for $250-$300. They told me that there was no way to phase the rotors, or replace the rear case bearings. All they did was open up the blower, re-greased the rear bearings, and replaced the snout bearings. I removed the blower again and sent it to http://stiegemeier.com/saleen/ porting services, because I had lost confidence in the first re-builder. Stiegmeier is an Authorized Eaton Repair facility. Make sure that the company you send it to is doing a COMPLETE rebuild to include tearing down the gear drive assembly, phasing the rotors, and putting the Teflon coating back on the rotors. Stiegmeier does it all... Good Luck, Syber |
#15
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#16
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Quote:
Anybody have their M90 ported? I think for what I am doing, I am not sure its wise to spend the money. I think a fresh rebuild with the 2.8 pulley will be plenty more to handle on the autoX course than the stock motor in the car now. On another note my 40# injectors & Mosaleen idler showed up today and I bought a heat shield after confirming I had a stock intercooler. I was hoping since it came with a used intercooler that there was an aftermarket upgraded one in there. Oh well. |
#17
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Stiegemeier received my blower and confirmed that the unit needs a full rebuild in addition to the rotor re-coating. An unexpected additional expense but good piece of mind anyway.
But now I need to decide if I want to spend the additional money to have it ported. I did some internet searching with limited luck. Stieg claims 25HP from the job which is on par with other real mods on a $/hp basis. I couldn't find any customer tests to back it up and stumbled upon some Roush forum where they say the roush M90 porting doesn't amount to anything considerable but the "saleen setup does". This initially thought to be a low buck blower is getting awfully expensive fast. But I don't want to pass over a worthwhile improvement while the blower is apart on the bench and regret it later..... Thoughts? |
#18
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I don't have specific experience with the Steig porting process but I would be skeptical of the 25hp they claim for it. Maybe in conjunction with some other upgrades I'd believe 25hp. The real restriction on the eaton M90 is the saleen intake plenum.
Think of it this way.....the air comes in through the filter, past the MAF sensor and up the intake and then to the intake plenum where it makes a bend and then connects to the supercharger. That bend/narrow intake plenum is where you're losing some efficiency. The stock saleen intake plenum is on the right. This is what's restricting your supercharger. Look how small and narrow it is in comparison to this aftermarket plenum: I'd pass on it personally.
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07 Porsche 911 Turbo 02 Saleen S/C Speedster 3.73 gears Chicane 66mm Pulley SCT custom tune SVT Focus Fuel Pump 13" Brembo Brakes LFP Heat Exchanger and Supertank TorkTech Intake SVT Cobra single blade TB Chicane Intercooler 42lb injectors 90mm MAF FPRP Aluminum Driveshaft Maximum Motorsports LCA's, Subframes, Torque Arm, Panhard Bar, Steering Shaft, Front Control Arms and Aluminum Rack Bushings MM Coilover kit with caster camber plates |
#19
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The M90 is back from Steig and looks good. I went for the full rebuild and had the rotors recoated.
I'd love to swing the Torktech intake, that pic is pretty convincing, but after dropping a good chunk of money for the rebuild and recoat I can't swing it. The other thing is I haven't even driven the car with the blower on yet so I haven't experienced the big HP increase let alone a nominal one with a better inlet. I figure that would be a good upgrade down the road if I need it. Any ideas what it and a Cobra TB is worth power wise? I do need to rebond my plastic saleen inlet. Any tips on what epoxy to use? The old stuff was pretty brittle. Also, any tips on intercooler cleaning? I hope to get a good amount accomplished this weekend. Maybe even have it on the car. Still plenty of odds and ends to wrap up before I can start the tune process but we still have quite a bit of snow on the ground and more in the forecast. |
#20
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And one more Q?
I found a lead on a series IV inlet. I guess I need an adapter plate to bolt it to my S2 M90. Anybody know where I can get one or have a picture of one? I wouldn't mind not having to strip and re-bond my plastic inlet. |
#21
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Quote:
Things are going together well. One thing I have seen on the net recently was the OE saleen intake manifold leaves a lot to be desired. The runners seemed to be a smaller cross section but one thing I was shocked to find was the absolutely horrible blend where the runner castings meet near the head flanges. The runners come up vertical and perform a 180 where they meet the heads. The problem is, only the long side of the port does this. The "short side" makes a 90 degree turn with a radius then just a 90 sharp edge. Yuck. With lots of material under it I couldn't help but cut this 90 sharp to a mild radius. Nothing crazy but just had to cure that issue. So as it stands the build features the following. Steig rebuilt and recoated M90 (not ported). Tork tech inlet and OE cobra TB Intercooler heatshield with stock intercooler Ebay dual pass bar and plate exchanger Mosaleen idler bracket Fuel will be a Walbro returnless drop in replacement with enough umph to handle this and Accel 40# injectors. Should be fun. What should I run for spark plugs plugs and what kind of gap with OE COP's? For a CAI I was going to just cut my PI JLT in fender system and get a 4 to 4.5" coupler to mate to the Cobra TB. Are there any issues with having the MAF (90mm lightning) in the fender close to the filter??? |
#22
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Thanks for the order!
Let me know how everything works out. Enjoy! |
#23
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Blower switch
I have switched out the Saleen blower in my 2004 S281 SC to a 2.1 kenne bell. Now I am making another change and need some info. I want to go to the 2.6 Kenne Bell does anyone know if it will fit under the hood of the 2004. I have the heat extracter hood. Looking to bump the HP from 550 to 7-8 hundred at the fly. Thanks
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#24
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CJK440...Sounds like your rebuild is going great. Your's is very similar to what I did with my M90. Had the Series II rebuilt, ported and polished by Steig. They did a great job for a very reasonable price. Also have the TorkTech inlet, but used their single blade TB for mine. One thing i haven't seen in your thread is where you are getting the set up tuned once you get it all together and running? Going from non-supercharged to supercharged requires lots more fuel and a good tuner who knows what he is doing. The stock tune is way too lean for a supercharged set and you are looking at burned pistons or worse very soon with out the new tune. Glad to see you upgraded the fuel pump and injectors...one more thing you might consider is a Kenne Belle boost-a-pump to keep the fuel pump running hard when you need it at wide open throttle. Surprised nobody else mentioned this.
My set up yielded 397 RWHP, should be interested what you get.
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99-126 "Saleena" |
#25
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I wouldn't say going great. I have had a ton of hurdles with the kit I bought and regret it definitely. But in the end, all the issues will be solved and I will have a nice fresh setup.
I bought a TU229HP returnless walbro. Its a 290lph pump and people report it has no issue with HP levels higher than I plan to attain with my setup. For tuning, I have SCT Pro Racer software and plan to do it myself. I tuned my previous car, a Cobra with a high compression stroker and enjoyed the systematic process. I know S/C will be more difficult to tune but am not intimidated. |
#26
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The Best Tuner McNews automotive in Dillsburg Pa. These guys are amazing!!! 717-432-2686 or 717-432-2277 Ray McNew is the best. Bobby McNew is owner. Ray does the dyno pulls and tuning.
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#27
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Well I finally have this running and am working on the tune. Problem is I am finding some sky high IAT's.
A long (from 1300 rpm) 3rd gear WOT pull gets up to 170 on an 85 degree day!!! Just driving around town and I get 128..... If I pull over and check the coolant it feels ambient and the fittings in the back of the intake feel comparatively cold in the hot engine bay. So I know the fluid is pumping. But the intake runners are hot as hell. My intercooler setup consists of the following. New LFP intercooler Intercooler heat shield 1/2" hose GT500 pump ebay dual pass bar & plate HE coolant is straight water with water wetter. The M90 was freshly built by steig, I think a 2.66 pulley and it reaches 11psi peak. Is there anything else other than the intercooler coolant system that could be contributing to high IAT temps that I should look for? |
#28
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Are you running a Inter-cooler cap on your heat exchanger coolant tank or a radiator cap? Sounds like a dumb question but there is a big difference in pressure relief on the cap designed for the coolant tank than a radiator overflow tank cap and they look almost identical. The inter-cooler tank relief pressure is about 10 psi and really makes a difference in coolant temps...I learned the hard way. I attached a pic of the inter-cooler cap. Looks just like the OEM radiator overflow tank cap except for description and relief pressure description.
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99-126 "Saleena" |
#29
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The radiator cap...pressure relief at 16 psi vs. 10 psi.
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99-126 "Saleena" |
#30
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I have the 10psi intercooler cap but I am getting nowhere near a IC coolant temp that will build pressure....
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#31
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I've never know the IC system to build any pressure in it. So I guess the cap makes no difference.. I have used an MGW coolant cap for years with out incident...
Syber |
#32
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does that gt 500 pump a bolt on and match up with the stock intercooler lines? just curious before i go and by a replacement from oberdurf
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#33
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No it does not. there has to be some mods done. Also, don't replace your Oberdorf. pump, send it in and have them rebuild yours.
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#34
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I had to fab up my entire intercooler plumbing system. The GT500 just has hose barbs for 3/4" hose. I have 3/4" hose from my terminator reservoir to the pump then to the intercooler. Then from the intercooler the IC is fed with 1/2" parker pushlock then the same back to the reservoir.
The oberdorf pump that came with my kit was completely destroyed and the GT500 seemed like a good replacement. I don't know how it performs in comparison but with the return water not feeling very hot as it is, I doubt moving the water thru the IC faster would help. I did troubleshoot some more and pulled the IC pump fuse and took a spin around town. I watch IAT's climb to 150 then they dropped 30* when I put the fuse back in. The intercooler seems to be pulling 30 degrees out of the charge. It appears that this M90 is just creating hot air despite any symptoms. Other peoples experiences on the net seem to support this. I have a 70mm pulley (2.755") contrary to what I said before which I believe is a stock pulley. I'm still peaking at 10-11psi boost with it. The bypass works, the rotors look great and the rotor coating is perfect. The next step is to install a snow boost cooler to just spray distilled water pre-blower (cant run meth in SCCA) just to pull out charge heat, not to add any fueling. Anybody inject water and or meth into their M90? |
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