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2007-2008 S331 Sportruck For discussion of the F-150 platform "Thunder." |
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#1
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Rear end shudder - Ideas on the cause?
has anybody had problems w/rear diff besides pinion angle? I took mine in yesterday to have that rear shudder diagnosed, I thought it would be the pinion angle,because truck has 10000 miles on it and mike troyer said if it did have a shudder to get it fixed because most of these trucks have severe neg pinion angle. well there replacing the clutches in the rearend ? would it have damaged the clutches so soon?
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#2
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I have the same shudder, it comes in about halfway through 2 gear under full throttle. This is interesting news as I have had my truck in for inspection for what I called "make sure it has a possi rearend" then check to make sure its working right!!! The posi unit has always been very loose (Sometimes making a right hand turn under throttle, passenger side rear will spin on its own). My other past Fords were always a handful to drive when traction was an issue. Not this one. Well, keep us up to date on your fix and thanks.
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#3
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Dentguy, our rearends have to big issues with them. One, being the pinion angle. If I were you, I would ask how the dealership measured the pinion angle and what numbers they came up with. It seems as if some garage do not meaure this correctly. The second issue is common on all 05+ F150s. The clutch packs are too tight. Many guys have found that adding some friction modifier and then doing some crazy 8s in a parking lot have fixed this. However, if you are under warranty, this should be fixed by the dealer. There is a TSB out on this also.
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#4
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When I punch the throttle getting on the interstate and the rear tires break loose I notice a shudder. It never shudders unless the tires spin. Is this caused by the neg pinion angle?
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#5
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do the tires break loose from a stand still or rolling? |
#6
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They break loose rolling.
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#7
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dang , wish mine would do that !! anyhow that sounds like wheel hop, may need traction bars for that. mine shuddered under normal acceleration.
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#8
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Its like 30 degrees here and the roads are sandy. Thats why I just noticed it. It only breaks loose in the summer from a stop. Maybe im lucky and this prob has been fixed "crosses fingers"
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#9
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I am pretty new to all of this so excuse me when I ask this next question. What does everyone mean when they say "shudder". My truck seems to run fine until around 105-110mph then there will be a slight vibration over the whole truck. When I start moving past 110mph to around 115-120 it will go away. It is only there between 105 and 110mph and will stay vibrating as long as I cruise in that range. Does this have anything to do with my pinion angle? If so where do I need to take the truck to have it checked out? Can the ford dealer check this?
I would say "saleen certified" ford dealer but I didn't and for a good reason. They have absolutely NO knowledge whatsoever about these trucks or the saleen cars that they sell except for the specs on the window sticker that everyone can read and see for themselves. Seems like to me if they were gonna sell the vehicles they should at least have to go through some class to learn a little bit about them rather than just signing up to be a dealer and knowing not the slightest thing about them or their problems. |
#10
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Sounds like you have a driveshaft vibration. Suppose to have about 1 to 2 degree negative driveline angle.
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#11
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Burnouts331,
I'm asuming you have made some type of computer chip change as in stock form my truck is maxed @ 100mph by the computer. It sounds like your issue is a bit different as you should feel the vibration or shudder as you come through 2nd or 3rd gear with full throttle. |
#12
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I dont believe my truck has had any upgrades and mine isnt governed at 100. I have had it up to 120. Did some of these truck come governed and some not??
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#13
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have you ever had it in the dealer for diagnostic issues? they would know if it's been retuned. i don't think the stock tune would allow the speed to exceed 100. are you 1st or 2nd owner? if 2nd, 1st owner could have tuned it and not returned it to stock ?
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#14
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I am the second owner. If someone had put a tune on it I wouldnt think I would still be having the surging problem and the sticker/cap that is on the SC pulley had never been tampered with. I have little to no boost in first and maybe 5-6 pounds in 2-3 gear. From what I hear on here It sounds all stock to me. I wish I could get ahold of the first owner but it was a repo and the dealer was no help for me.
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#15
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#16
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You MIGHT be able to squeeze 5lbs of boost out of a stock truck in 100% optimal conditions. 6lbs....no way that I can think of. These trucks make 4.5 psi.
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#17
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I have never made any changes to the truck or its computer chip. It is still stock. I am the first and only owner of the truck and I have gotten it up to 125mph. That is weird since the speedometer only goes to 120 and the needle keeps on moving along. Also I can get up to 5 lbs of boost in the truck in any gear. I still have the surging issues. I was just about to take out the pcm and send it in for a reflash but I would hate to do that if I get it back with a 100mph speed limiter. I think I will just deal with the surging. I once read a review in some magazine in these trucks that said they didn't cut off until 130mph; I haven't tested that out in my truck yet because I haven't found a straight long enough yet besides the interstate. Can't remimber the magazine. |
#18
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How often do you drive 120??? 20mph less top speed vs better gas mileage, a better running truck, no surging issues, the ability to actually use cruise control. Sounds like a no brainer to me. If you are worried about the top speed, save up and buy a tuner for $400...and you get 3 custom tunes for that price. You can have the top speed moved to where ever you want. |
#19
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Were these trucks governed @ 100 from the factory or not?
After reading all the posts on problems and variances on these trucks im starting to think the S331 was built in a chop shop for beer money. |
#20
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saleen needs to fire the quality control person. obviously nobody ever test drove these trucks or they got there beer before and during the build of them and forgot to test them after. |
#21
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Guys, please keep your derogatory comments to yourselves, and instead put your energies into helping each other with a positive exchange of constructive ideas.
Thank you. |
#22
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why doesn't a saleen rep come on here and help us with a positive solution on helping us with our trucks and there issues? we seemed to get slapped on the hand for expressing our concerns.if there is a solution to making our trucks run like there supposed to and it not affecting our warr please tell us. so please don't take what i'm saying wrong, i love my truck i'm just a little irritated because it has so few miles and so many issues and anything i do to it voids my warranty. |
#23
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dentguy,
The question has already been posed directly to Saleen. I have confirmation that they are aware of the concerns. However, they refuse to comment. These trucks are not even made anymore. Saleen has said they would like to build another F150 in late 2010, but the market would decide if they would even attempt to. |
#24
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I wish saleen would give me a reason to have somthing positive to say. Like dentguy said get someone from saleen on here and give us answers and fix our legitamate problems. The only constructive Ideas I am hearing is spend more money on aftermarket products so your truck will run as good as it should from the factory BUT if you do it will void your warranty Well unless you lie to your dealer and take all your after parts off. Really?
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#25
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Guys,
These trucks do perform as the way they were advertised from Saleen. Are they a Ford Lightning? No....but, they had their BIG problems too. The S331 is rated at 450hp. Most of them on a dyno, stock, are making in the realm of 340hp at the wheels. That is about a 24% loss of power through the drivetrain. Given the two piece driveshaft, huge transmission, 9.75 rear, and 23" wheels, that is not bad. I believe the trucks that made 340 also had a mechanical fan. These trucks do out handle any stock 05+ F150 on the market. Additionally, they out brake them too. Do these trucks perform to the ability that a $60k suggests? No, not in my opinion. However, to say that Saleen should do something to these trucks to make them perform as they should is a little too bold in my opinion. I do agree that these trucks were/are a quality control nightmare. I feel like everyone here that owns one of these trucks are like guinea pigs. It is like we are the ones finding all the problems. Fortunately, the problems are all easily solved...pinion angle, a bad tune in the computer, tight clutch packs, bad relays for the fans, bad hubs (at one time) for the front wheels. When dealing with such a small niche of vehicles (600 or so made), one would think that quality would have been top-notch, unfortunately, that is not the case. Our warranties cover everything and once we get the little bugs worked out, I think everyone will be happy. There is always a need to go faster, brake better, handle better, haul more, look better. Saleen made these trucks to perform better than stock, and they do, in every aspect. If we want them to do more, it is up to us to make them do so, but at a price. I know that no one twisted my arm to buy an S331 :) Hope I didnt offend anyone |
#26
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I agree light02, but i'm just holding saleen to a higher standard that i know they are capable of, they have shown us for many years they are above the rest. that's why i paid double for a f150. i'm just pushing them to show us why we put such high standards on them. and they need to maintain this standard by not removing the parts that make them diff and stand apart from the rest like the electric fan. how can jdm or troyer have a fan that works w/out a problem and they can't ? the issues were having are small but there small enough and on every truck they should have been solved before they left the factory. asking them to make these trucks run is not bold were just asking them to remind us why the saleen truck is so unique and the reason it stands out from the rest. and why your paying 60k+ for a f150 not just any f150 but a saleen f150. I'm not degrading saleen i'm pushing them to maintain there high standards and uniqueness. if i'm wrong about this please tell me why.
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#27
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I agree with all the comments, I am a uk owner and paid a huge premium to have one of these rather than a stock 150. I have had or am having problems with the truck as well. The forum admin had to help as Saleen would not contact me re my problems. They then agreed to provide the parts but I have to pay the labour on a truck that had done 650 miles only. Then the fan parts arrived and there was no fan or fan clutch! I complained to have a reply that said they were stock Ford parts and they would not supply. I am NOT HAPPY and have sent 4 polite e-mail pointing out why I feel they should provide the parts and have had no reply.
I feel that they have built the truck and now don't want to look after the people who purchase them. I am not asking for them to agree to everything BUT common customer service is to deal with the issues not ignore them. By the way my truck has not been modified (yet) but pulls 4.5 boost and is still accelerating at 120mph?? |
#28
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I could get 6lbs on my truck when it was stock, and now I get 8 to 8.5lbs with the JDM Kit. |
#29
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6lbs is awesome, especially since Saleen, all the literature, and most everyone else makes 4.5lbs stock. I wish i made that much stock! I thought the JDM kit was suppose to make 10ish? |
#30
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My truck is a Harley F-150 with the Saleen Ship-thru option, not a Saleen F-150. Maybe it's the exhaust? Does the Saleen F-150 have true dual exhaust? Mine is single in dual out from the factory. A more free flowing exhaust could drop the boost from 6 to 4.5lbs.
That's the only thing I can think of because my truck should have the mine 5.4 motor and same supercharger as the Saleen F-150. Minus the E-fans. I have the clutch fan. The JDM kit came with a 3.2" pulley that gave me 2 to 2.5lbs. If you are making the same power as mine was stock with only 4.5 lbs then you are a step ahead. You could add more boost and make more power. Also...Back on topic. Where can I take my truck to get the pinion angle checked? The Dealership? I dont have the stock suspension. I am lowered 2/4 but I still get a slight vibration near the 2-3 shift when I romp on the go pedal. Last edited by sman113; 12-16-2008 at 10:35 AM. |
#31
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The free flowing exhaust could, definitely, be the culprit. If you do not have stock suspension, your pinion angle adjustment will not be covered under warranty. You should just check it yourself and add shims between your leafs and rearend....they are pretty cheap. To check pinion angle...PROPERLY: 1: mark your driveshaft and rearend with a line so you can replace the driveshaft the same way it came out. 2: make sure you are on level ground (this should actually be #1) 3: remove driveshaft from rearend 4: with an angle finder (found on ebay, ace hardware, home depot), find the angle underneath your crankshaft pulley. Literally, put the angle finder on your crankshaft pulley 5: measure the angle on your rearend. There is a flange that comes off your rearend (where your driveshaft attached), put the angle finder on this and measure the angle. Subtract your 1st angle measurement from your second angle measurement...it should be a negative number. You should be around negative 1 to 2 degrees. The S331 from the factory is anywhere from 6-9 negative degrees. |
#32
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We have to remember that atmospheric conditions will affect how much boost the trucks are able to make. Your elevation and temperature make a big difference. At sea level you have 14.7 PSI atmoshpheric where at mile high stadium you only have about 12 PSI atmoshpheric. So the lower your elevation the denser the air is coming into the supercharger. Same with the colder temps. Mine typically only makes about 4.5 lbs of boost but we were in the upper 20 degree range yesterday and mine actually made 6 lbs of boost. I don't like the cold weathe but i love the additional power!
__________________
00-503 S281-SC 07-246 S331-SC 95-115 S351-R Speedster 89-100SSC |
#33
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I think you hit the nail on the head. I got my truck in the fall when the temps were in 60-70. At that outside temp I was getting about 4.5 PSI of boost. When the outside temp was 7 degrees with a wind chill of -15 I could get a smidge over 6 PSI. My truck does not have a tune on it, I had it checked out. Another thing is how accurate are these guages? That could be part of the variance from truck to truck. |
#34
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Light on my 07 Saleen the exhaust, from each side to cats, to a single Bigasz muffler an comes out to each side for the side exhaust. like = ]><[ = in @ top, out @ bottom.
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#35
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Gomez, thats how most, if not all S331s exhaust is run. Dual in Dual out single muffler (DIDO). I think the Harley F150s have a single in, dual out muffler setup? |
#36
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The Harley trucks have a Y-pipe. So the muffler has a single pipe inlet and dual pipe outlet.
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#37
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.....and that's how my Saleen Mark LT is set up using the Dynatech headers from Troyer. I can actually hear the air rush at the "Y" ... Mike Troyer has suggested a mod to the "Y" for decreasing the scavenging effect.
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#38
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am i being to critical about this issue ? local ford dealer cannot adjust the pinion angle, after 2 attempts they now say it's a saleen issue. why would this be a saleen issue? dealer says saleen altered the height of the truck and ford said it is now saleens issue. imo they have tried twice and can't figure it out so there putting it off on saleen. problem is saleen dealer is a 2 hr trip one way,maybe i should not complain about this as i should have ck'd into this before i bought it, but it's still a hassle.past experience is they always keep it 2 to 3 weeks longer than they should. and if ford is going to sell these trucks and other vehicles w/saleen parts on them they should require dealerships to have at least 1 certified tech imo.
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#39
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#40
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The dealer is correct, this is a Saleen issue. However, if I am not mistaken, Saleen can authorize a ford dealership to do the repairs. I think they use to be really strict about this, but not anymore. I could be wrong. Seems like I read a thread recently saying someone did this. This is NOT a hard fix. As Richard said....its a matter of measuring the pinion angle and then adding shims.
What, exactly, did they do when they "tried" two times to fix it, but couldnt? Did they, at least, acknowledge that the pinion angle was off? Have you called Saleen? See if you can get in touch with the tech department and ask for Ken (if he is still there). The last time I spoke with him, he was very helpful. |
#41
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well they put the shims in, but still has a slight vibration on takeoff. i asked them what the angle was set at now, they don't know,said the mech installed the shims, test drove said it's still shudders and said he gave up take it to a saleen dealer. they were nice about it but could not fix it. one other problem i noticed is the rear bumper has alot of trash on in the paint on the rr top corner also top of front bumper has what looks like couple of small blisters or rash in the paint. anyone with this problem ? truck had 3500 miles on it when i bought it, so i don't think it's been repainted.
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#42
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"we dont know what the angle is now" is an unacceptable answer. A tech cant just go in and add shims and hope for the best. He has to know what size shim to add. Additionally, I believe there is a TSB out there for a shaky rearend on 06+ F150s, due to too tight clutch packs.
I still havent taken mine in yet to have this fixed. I am kind of hesitant. |
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